Hi there, I'm Stephanie.

And I'm Lydia.

Come along with us as we explore and learn about the world of Tolkien through deep dives on lore, characters, beatalons, and lafflons.

We are excited to have you as a new friend on this journey with us. Welcome to Speak Friend and Enter a Lord of the Rings podcast.

Hello, hello, welcome back. Hey, how's it going?

I am very excited about this one because I feel like this is the topic, Lydia, that whenever we're discussing the movies

or I don't know, like we were talking about Saruman

and one of our last deep dives, these these objects just keep coming up and we're always like, what are those? Why are those significant? And they play a decently big part of, I don't know.

Yeah, they have a big impact on the story. The story of Lord of the Rings. So I'm excited to be doing a deep dive on these guys.

For the record, the object is the Palantir. Yes, we're discussing the Palantir.

And then the thought that I had actually going into this, I was like, you know what's interesting? I was just reading an article the other day. There are like multiple defense, I don't know if you'd call them startups, but smaller companies that are named after Lord of the Rings objects. And I'm sure there are more than the ones I know. So a bit famous one is called Palantir.

And then there's another one I was not aware of called Andrew. No way. Are you serious?

The Flame of the West. And I'm like, this is what happens when irresponsible fantasy nerds become CEOs. And I'm cool with it.

It's fine. And now I'm thinking I got to like work on like some kind of like business company scene that is named out of something. I was going to say, okay, so if you had to do Top of

Mind, not name it doing, if you had to name a company, let's go with company.

Just from a Lord of the Rings name, what speaks to you?

I don't know yet exactly. The top of my mind right now are I would say like Glamdream for some reason. It's giving me good vibes because I like the idea of using that something that's slightly like not super recognized. Right? So slightly off the beaten road. So Glamdream comes to mind and then honestly, Glauron. Oh my gosh. He has a great sticker name. So I don't know. I love that. I not not Turin.

Yeah, that would never work for me. That would not be the one. Yeah, look up the history

of our company or anything like that. Yeah, you want to steer away from some names.

Okay, I had this thought because I was reading. Oh, I forgot to mention it in one of our Somerilian ones, but in the Somerilian, they talk about a tower, Echthelion, and we know that there's in a tower of Echthelion in Gondor.

In Gondor, right? I just think the name Echthelion with like a tower, like a watch tower as the symbol. Yeah. I think that could really help.

On my penis.

Well, maybe we have to do a riff episode on naming companies or something. Yeah, maybe so.

So history of Palantir. So a couple of things that came up as I was thinking about this as I wanted to know, I was like, where did they come from? What were they used for? And how many of these things were out there? Because we know them primarily from, we mentioned Lord of the Rings, Soran has one, Denethor has one, and Soran uses them to kind of almost like spread his propaganda to their to their minds. To spread his despair. Exactly.

And sorry, so we have not seen in the Somerilian, we have not seen Palantir's, right?

No, we have not. Well, not that I remember.

Do you remember? Yeah, I don't recall. So I don't think we've seen that, which means they've not been invented is how I think that.

Well, I was a little surprised about the history of the Palantir's actually. Okay. All right, I think it. So they're very important in the Lord of the Rings. I was surprised by their history, just a little bit of background also. The Palantir name is Quenya Elvish, so it means to watch over. And Palantir is singular. There were multiple the Palantiri and they were actually created, we believe, by Feanor back in Valinor. Yeah.

So. Oh, but maybe they never left Valinor? Is that why we haven't seen them in years?

So they were, they did leave Valinor with Feanor. So not only was he doing not only was he, well, because they talk about him making great works, right?

They do. And so this is one of the great works of Feanor.

Yes. So this is one of the great works. Okay. And they come with them. I

mean, I get that. Like I get, I fully buy into him making amazing things because we see him make the Silmaril and then we see the drama that ensues from that. So it's not surprising to me that there is drama ensuing from his other works. Yeah, of course.

Like, right? Like you're like, oh, I can't catch a good break with these. Of course. But basically.

He's cursed the way Al Le is cursed.

He makes everything he makes. And so he makes these, I'm assuming these are one of his great works. They bring a number of them with them when they flee into the east. And the way that we know them is they were given from Feanor's descendants, the elves, to loyal men, to, as a way to communicate, as a way to communicate during the, those early battles.

And so, man, imagine that level of like civilization where everything has to be carried by messengers, except for two dudes who have walkie-talkies. Yeah, exactly.

Right. That is such a huge advantage. And so essentially that goes into like, what were they used for? These were purely like used for communication and intelligence gathering over like long, long distances. And they'd be so useful, man. Yeah. So, and what's intriguing.

But sorry, is this like, when did Tolkien decide that the Silmarils, or I'm sorry, not the Silmarils, the Palantir had come from Valinor with the Noldor? Cause like, I feel like they could have used them

a couple times in this story thus far. It's so funny. So where are they? Well, in... It almost feels like a, what's the word I'm looking for? You know, when you retroactively put in a plot point. Exactly. Okay. Let me see. Cause there was this one...

Like, I believe you, but at the same time, Tolkien, if they were here, I would like to know.

It's like, why didn't we want to mention these before? And to be fair, I feel like he did revise his work quite a bit.

A lot of it was notes over years. And so him kind of being like, okay, why, where would these be from? Why would they be here? So I'm looking, where did all this information about like, the properties come from? From some of the references.

Okay. So we have Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle Earth, which is another reading. And apparently in that, in that canon, there's a section called the Pallentary, which discusses like how they're used and kind of origin.

So maybe later when we start discussing the Numenorians, we will see, we'll learn more about their history and how

they have been discussed. I think they definitely will be discussed. It's just kind of like off-screen right now. I think they definitely will be discussed there because the ones that we see basically, so you get the impression that maybe the elves had these and were using these and only some were given to men, right? And the Numenorians, it sounds like had eight Pallentary. Um, and so there were a lot of them.

And what's fascinating, and I thought this was really cool is it's Elendil, who is the father of Isildur, right? The one who cuts off the ring. And so on their shield, you'll notice they have the tree, this tree of Valinor, or this tree of the king, and they have seven... And this tree of the king, does it become the tree of Gondor? It becomes the tree of Gondor, yep.

And it has seven little stars on the shield. Are those Pallentary? Those are seven Pallentary that Elendil was able to take from Numenor and bring to Middle Earth. What?

Okay, okay. That's cool. Which is really cool. I know exactly what you're talking about. I have that like image seared in my mind.

And so, I thought that was fascinating because essentially when we're thinking about the tree of the king, it's supposed to represent kind of like the health of not just the country, but it's almost like the relationship between the Valar and men, right? In the line of kings and like the health of that relationship and that support and that being there. And the Pallentary are these like seer balls of communication. And so you just, you get this sense of like their crest is essentially very much like connection to the gods and connection to each other. It's kind of like the strong...

Well, I think, I don't know. I think it's really interesting to see that this crest of men is almost entirely derived from Elvish things. Like the tree, I mean, the tree is obviously a reference to the trees in Valar, right? Very Elvish culture. The Pallentary, again, gift from the elves, you know, no man made those. So it is cool to see men as like, you know, the Elvish or certain sects of men as like Elvish little brother. Yeah, like the Dunedain. They're trying, yeah, they're trying so hard to be elves. They're not quite there, but the colors.

It's like they're using all of the gifts and all of the teachings and everything that they gathered there.

You said something that I wanted to ask you about before we move on. So there were Pallentary taken by Feanor out of Valar, but not all. So that implies that there are some Pallentaries still left in Valar.

I feel like I would get that impression. I don't know if that's entirely canon, but that's the impression I got.

That's interesting. But it's not said and he took every single Pallentary out of Valar and left with them, right? Okay, that's interesting. So we don't have any moments where somebody communicates with a Pallentary in Middle Earth back to Valar and a god picks up the phone, right? Because wouldn't that be wild? You're like, hey, I'm trying to call my buddy. We're trying to coordinate our war plan and like freaking Mando's picks up the phone.

Okay, but this is the thing that I think is so interesting is so as elves started leaving, this is going to be after Elendil. This is when Numenor is set up. Elves started going back to Valanor and they were leaving and they started that Exodus. We haven't hit that yet. Yeah, they started that Exodus.

This is the beginning of the Exodus that we catch the tail end of in Borde Vareens. Exactly. And what's fascinating. You know what? Having context for that is really interesting because I did not appreciate that Exodus, but I've been trying for like, you know, in all of our Silmarillion reading, I've been trying to like, come on guys, just talk to Valanor, just go back to paradise. You know?

And so elves are starting to do that at this point when Numenor has these seer stones. And so you do get the impression that there's a little bit of communication between the elves and men still. And some of the elves are in Valanor, right? I see. Okay.

And so you have. And they may still have an interest in communicating back and communicating back and helping people.

But this is the thing that I think is so interesting. And so now we're going to get to and I was like, how did they know about all this? But supposedly the references that that one Palantiri chapter of the tip of that book.

Sounds like we'll have to get to it eventually. Yeah, we'll have to discuss our future reading.

So the thing that I thought was interesting is they had some pretty specific stuff about like how Palantir were used. So they were like these dark, perfectly smooth spheres, but they had were varying in sizes.

Like some of them are small, some were actually really large. And like what sort of scale are we talking about? Like the size of the building?

I think like a foot to like multiple feet, like not not size of building, but maybe like stone to boulder vibes, stone to boulder vibes. And it was interesting because it was almost like you had to align the sphere to kind of like the poles of the earth. Like the poles had the energy.

And yeah, and that was like the telecommution telecommunication.

Yeah, exactly. And so but then what was so fascinating is so a person would like bend bend their mind to communicating on this this Palantir. Right. And what's fascinating to me is I'm like, okay, so you don't have to have magic because if they are giving them to men, then obviously that that wouldn't be prerequisite. But what they said is that the spheres had like a sense of loyalty.

So like purpose given like the reason why they were so like a low level kind of like if I give this Palantir to you as a gift and it's meant for us to communicate. That was the direct channel that would kind of like open up and flow. So if anyone wanted to hijack that, you almost get the impression they'd have to have a lot of magic and a lot of like focus to overcome the safeguard.

Overcome how the Palantir was directed to work. So that's interesting for a couple of reasons. If you think about the Saruman Palantir was so I think we just trusted a little bit when we had talked about Saruman. He goes and he takes over this tower and it has a Palantir in it and he takes over it because it has a Palantir in it. Right. So maybe it's a lost Palantir like the person who originally gifted it is dead.

The elf who originally was the other end is dead. So maybe it doesn't know. Maybe it doesn't have like a pre established line of communication.

But what if it did? What if Saruman was like, yo, I'm going to set up all these Palantir that are teed to me and me alone and see who comes see who comes along like a little mouse track.

That would be fascinating. I thought it was interesting because so they said like Elendil took these seven Palantir out of Numenor and then he put them on watch towers all around Arnor and Gondor. The northern and southern kingdom. And so that's exactly where Saruman found his in Orthink. Sorry.

Just to be clear when they flee Numenor, when Numenor is destroyed, they go and they found Gondor. Is that right?

Yes. They go to Middle Earth. They found Gondor and then there's a northern kingdom called Arnor and they found both of those. Okay. Perfect. Technically, I think it was one whole kingdom when it was under Elendil, but then he had two signs and they split it. Anyways. Okay. So then they spread these all over the land, which is supposed to act as like security communication. And so Denethor. Is this in place of the Beacons? Oh, actually, that would be incredible in place of Beacons, but I don't know. Maybe the Beacons are something extra. Or do you think they had both?

I think they probably had both, right? Because this is what I think is so intriguing. Well, a couple of things before I get there. So first of all, Soromon is not the only one that we know has a Palantir. It later becomes apparent to us that Denethor has had a Palantir, right?

And he's also been getting kind of these visions and this darkness flooding his mind when it comes from communication to Soron. And so what we realize here is he doesn't really have magic, but because he's a steward of Gondor and the Palantir is acting in a sense of like its role was to protect and communicate.

He has authority in Gondor and the Palantir is key to Gondor itself, right?

He has authority over this channel. And so what's fascinating though is Soromon, when he gets the Palantir, it sounds like he would not have had that direct authority over the channel. And so he would have had to work harder and longer to actually break into utilizing it. But

he knows how to do that. He has the ability. Yeah.

Okay. And Soron, we haven't even talked about Soron, but I'm supposing that, well, because the tower of, I don't know if it was at Menis Morigal or where it was, but we know that a lot of Mordor is like old fallen watchtowers and fortresses of Gondor, right? Like Menis Morigal used to be a Gondorian fortress.

And so it's possible that he captured that. And so he was a Palantir when they were taking over Gondor territory. And so he's had time to kind of figure out how to impress his mind on these channels and see who else was using them. But what I think is interesting in terms of usage is you couldn't hear sound. So the only thing that you could do is like send images and visions. Or sometimes, sometimes if you were both really focused on it, you could have words or things impressed in your mind. But it wasn't like... But that would take a degree of focus. You couldn't talk into it.

But it wasn't like, hello, hello, and it's like, oh, I hear you. It was...

They never had to do text. Exactly. It was very visual. Or you could impress almost like words and messages into the fox in mind.

Because that is 100% the least effective communication method. It makes me wonder what was Feinor's intent when he made them. And it's clear that he made a lot of them.

So it makes me think, okay, was he trying really hard to invent the Wakti Taki? He couldn't quite get sound right. But he's like, wow, images are really working. I wonder if he doubled down on it. I was like, well, we're just going to work with the method that seems to be happening. Or I wonder if he kept on trying. He's like, I really want sound to work. I'm just going to make these until it works.

And I think the thoughts and sounds in your mind makes a little bit of sense. Because we do see that happening in like the Lord of the Rings movie. And I'm not saying that that's like the perfect representation of how a Pound here would work. Sure.

Because it does make it sound like you can communicate vocally.

So I think that's what they're saying is it's not like you could not communicate via mind, maybe in words. But you're not hearing stuff coming through.

I see, I see. I see what you're saying. So given enough concentration, you should be able to get your message correct. It's just difficult like in I know it's it's fun to think about as a walkie-talkie because then you can see a scenario where like there's an elven captain trying to reach his his human counterpart and they're like I need you to bring your to this hill at this hour and instead of getting to say that you have to imagine the sunset Then you have to imagine the hill and then you have to be like I really hope you understood what I wanted

there Listen to full right so it's Sears down So the first fold I'm seeing I'm thinking of is you're seeing things you're seeing things in the sears stone Then secondly is kind of like the mental impressions that we're talking about Maybe you're seeing and hearing things in your head in addition to like

yeah And if you have that combination of oh, I see the hill I see you know the time and then I get the impression bring troops, you know like that should be plenty That's what

I thought it was intriguing I thought that was intriguing about like how it was utilized I thought it was intriguing that I had very specific like almost purpose And so to hijack the channels took a little bit more like work and

um Now that you say that like there are images coming across on the stone I'm kind of loving that there there are a variety of sizes from stone to Boulder because all I can imagine is just like I really need a bitter tea. You're like I'm gonna make a boulder. I want my images to come in bitter Please Yeah It's like we need them

in 4k You know what's fascinating too is I was reading about this as well as some of the Palantir's I don't know why it's like how they were made but some of them had special communication channels with each other So like if

you had yeah, so maybe some favored each

other exactly So you had to align with the poles and you had to like It could only go, you know, I don't know like certain directions or distance, right? Like but there were some Palantir's that were very attuned to each other And so those would be like different like not all Palantir's were equal, which I think was interesting and It means that you'd be getting maybe slightly different things from different Palantir

So the Palantir's that came out of Numenor those seven that are on the the crest Is that all of the Palantir that were given to Numenor does does who is Elendil? Does he rescue them all or is that just some small fraction and then I think

so there's a lost Numenorian Palantir Yeah, that's fun Hope somebody has that and it's how you time with it And so I think this is really interesting to go over because something I wanted to address is like they're not innately evil And I think when we're watching the movie we're kind of like what are these spooky magic balls, right? And it looks kind of

despite Despite what you

see like we see Soromon's little ugly finger nails and he's like conjuring Soron and you're like What is that black stone?

Yeah But I think that's what's so fascinating about this is these are not innately evil things But they said like Soron wasn't able to make them, right? And so like Does he tried does he try to make them?

I actually don't know but

but he didn't make them for Spaniard He didn't make them so rather than being like I don't get my own communications to your stones He's like trying to hijack these so yeah, that sounds that sounds like the lazy man's route I would do that too, but it sounds hard right like respect.

He doesn't know who has them He's like having to apply all of this mental magic to kind of like communicate to who he wants to communicate to

when So I do think it's interesting that like it's another hats off to Feynor like he created something That even Maya were like this is impressive, right? Like Soromon was a Maya Soran was a Maya and they were like that's true This is cool.

That is true We have not given Feynor very much credit because he's been dead a while and he's been he was awful And he was a bad guy He should get that much credit But it is impressive to see legacy and to see the effects of Yeah, I just the effects of what he has produced and boy has he had some effects of the things he's still murals Palantir's Any moment somebody's gonna make a spin-off Tolkien book and we'll find some other thing it would it would fit in very well If they said, ah, yes, this is another thing that they ignore made Okay,

it would fit right I'm curious because I feel like a lot of Tolkien's work is like Things happening drama happening war happening almost over objects And I'm fascinated. Do you think that that's something that is applicable to our world in the modern day? Like how much do you think is the object is money?

Right, yeah But no, I think you're right. I think you're on to something. I think that the it seems like a specific Tolkien line of thought or almost a trope that seems specific to him because even if you look at other fantasy There's so much more fantasy out there. That is yes, there is a powerful magic object But we're going to use it to fight the big bad.

Yeah, which is specifically what you don't do with the ring and or you know, here's a fantasy where The impetus like what drives the story is, you know, normal human things like we're going to divvy up the kingdom Like I want your kingdom or I want to take the kingdom from my brother, you know, just Civil War sort of things It's it's less often. I feel like this whole there's an amazing powerful object I'm struggling to think of one off the top of my head and I could be I think land land is huge, right?

Like yeah, but like domination

he seems to have foregone that sort of theme Like we rarely see that play out even when the Noldor came. Well now this is a similar in episode Even when the Noldor came into Middle Earth, there was a little conflict about the land, but not that much They're like, yeah, you can't settle here go somewhere else and they went a little ways off and they settled It does seem that he is hyper fixated on Here is a powerful object What will be the result of that and will be people fighting back and forth? And so I I think there is some sense of like it just represents things of value in general But he likes to supercharge it by being like it's this one specific thing It's not a mountain of gold people have mountains of gold left and right. It's it's this one Particularly valuable thing. Um, I don't know. It's a cool effect. I'm blinking out on other fantasy that does this for some reason um, well

like I Yeah,

I'm not as deep fantasy as Lydia.

She's well read, but um, I don't know I'm sure there's something though It's interesting too though because the ring is more than just an object It's tied to sorens like life force and if we want to go like the harry potter route We have like the core cracks and immortality and how much have people over generations of time sought immortality and sought legacy And that's huge. Um That's definitely something we see in today's world, but yeah, that's interesting.

So did the um This is interesting So we've seen a little bit in the somerillian like the relationship between men and elves develop And then it sounds like over the course of that there was a bequeathing of the palantheirs Yes And then it seems like after a certain point there's no longer use of the palantheir So what's going on with that? Is it because new menor fell because they went to gondor? They still had some are elves communicating with them ever again because it sounds like no It sounds like elf and man kind of start going their own way And that old alliance isn't there anymore And I I don't know the events that lead up to that, but is that the case where like They're not using those palantheirs to talk to the elves.

It sounds like very much That was kind of like a beginning of new menor thing and then that started slowly fading off We have like in the new menor storyline where there's kind of Soran of course Soran um is kind of like saying let's forget the gods Um, they're not there. They don't care anyways or even if they are like, why are they so important? What have they done for you? Yeah, and so like you have this like separation I think between like The valar communicate or the communication between valanor and new menor And so then by the time new menor falls and they're in middle earth I think it's very much just being used by men in that kingdom rather

than anything external So we're no longer getting a cross communication between elf and man Do we get a sense that the elves are using them a month?

Well, that's that's one thing that I'm curious about is because they said they were given by the elves Two men

because I feel like we don't see it like we don't see like elrond using a palantheir to communicate Yeah, but then he seems

like somebody who would That's what I'm curious about is like where they all lost did the elves that went back to the west take Take the palantheir with them because we do see something slightly similar And maybe we'll have to do a deep dive on this on gladrials mirror where she's able to scry and kind of like utilize But this is the future.

Is it the same with a palantheir? Can you use a palantheir to see the future? Because my impression with the ladrials mirror is that like this is a timeline.

That's true I actually don't think that that would be the same. It would not be future It would be communicating. I mean it could be falsehoods about the future, but it would be communicating like images or Um messages between individuals Interesting. So you're right. That would be a little different there

So I wonder if it's almost like a fashion thing like palantheir is just fall out of fashion Like you no longer want to communicate with men. Therefore, you no longer use those palantheirs and then um, I did like like you said the the elves are now leaving for valinor and maybe everyone's just thinking I don't need to talk to my elf buddy from so-and-so in 200 years. I'll just see him at valinor. We're all headed there Anyways, part of

me is wondering like I'm trying to think about how this would happen I think I wonder if the value of the palantheir started degrading for elves when like the Communication of who they could talk to started degrading. So like rather than then right is it a network where you don't

You have to bounce from one to another to get to

so-and-so I don't really see the elves being like wow. We really want to talk to those gondorians Like I don't think they care. Oh, yeah The only people I think they would be interested in talking to would maybe be elves in valinor But maybe that was becoming less and less likely and less and less of a thing I don't know why but let's say that eventually like that kind of peters off And so then what point do you have in these? Orbs that are talking to people that you're not really interested in talking to like they have the technology But they don't have the interest.

Yeah, or I mean I feel like the implication in the movies is that it's possible for a palantheir to be corrupted And so I wonder sarron if the fact that sarron has some Causes issues within the network.

Yeah, that could be where it's like you don't want to hop a little virus I do I do understand what you're saying.

You don't want to hop on a call that sarron might be listening to And it did say you don't want to use sarron

zoom room

Exactly And so that could be another thing too where it's like the value of them lies in the network Right and if your network deteriorates and their

value and if you don't know who's listening And yeah, exactly and and that feels like a good sensible idea of like we don't know where they all are We know some of them are with men which is like meh Do we care if men are listening to our conversations? We can probably speak to some minor dialect of elves when they won't be able to understand us however I think if they thought about it for more than two seconds they'd be like well You know we gave some to men and then sarron took over those lands and now we just don't know right And so I I think the offset side of things is probably the reason they might fall out of

disease And I think we have to also kind of mention they're probably rare like feynor Feynor gave these to men and it sounds like they treasured them They kept all eight very well for generations And then they had those seven like it could it could be like these are not as common as we We think they were and maybe a lot of them were taken Um to valinor when the elves left We know that there's only a small subset of elves left now When lord of the rings is happening and they're all leaving so like it could be like also these These talentaires are not as common.

How many I don't I guess I don't know fully that so how many elves are left in middle earth Like are we really catching the tell and it's very few elves left in middle earth?

I think by the time Well, I'm just thinking like towards the end of the movie, right? We have galadriel. We have people getting on the boat I think you do get the impression. It's the last boat out I think there was only one more boat out and I think it was legolas and gimley were on that boat Okay, and I think that's the last boat So you have this sense of like whoever's gonna stay is gonna stay and whoever's leaving has left at that point

Okay, and we did another divide another separation between elves and valinor and elves not in valinor That's kind of fun.

Um, I love that for them Oh, what else I was gonna mention this one thing. Oh, okay So also something that I thought was really fascinating that I had totally forgotten about but do you remember in the movies when Um pippin takes a look at the palanter and he gets kind of caught up in it And then aragorn grabs it from him and also falls down and the palanter rolls away So that's not how it is in the books in the books Aragorn uses the palanter as a strategic move because they find it at or think and they're like it makes sense They want to distract or they want to exactly it says it makes sense Why sormon did what he did because look at all this crazy influence he was getting from this from this palanter And so there's this moment where aragorn is like give me the palanter and let's have it be brought back almost like to its proper channel its proper place is proper usage and I'm going to utilize this to kind of Show myself to sormon and let him know that the era of elendil is here And and this is kind

of like a threat to any a child.

Yes And so it leads him to attack gondor a little sooner and for them to have like more time for the ring to to get To where it needs to go and so yeah, it's fascinating That it's very much like this is almost like a gift back to the king Right vibe where he's like, okay give it to me and gandalf's like, okay. This is the right full place where this should be This is for you But also like if you take this right like you're kind of like letting your cards lie you're showing

Sauron the fact that he

has access to it and that way. Yes, you're right It's like he's he's able to authenticate his lineage essentially via use of it Oh, that's wild. I like that. I think that's really intriguing and interesting So

we've gone from eight in new menor to seven in gondor to one It sounds like aragorn has one. Let's look because we know like the future use of of

balance We also know that denithor has one um Oh, right, right, right.

Sorry. So denithor had one answer in my house So now aragorn has two

so if he's king and gondor he at least has two Let's see. There was there was a little list of like where people

And then he would be able to recapture different places from saruman and potentially some Scoop up some of

the other ones because there was let's see. Okay. They place stones at all of these key locations Okay, interesting So they said that four of the seven were lost And then I think this might be going into them. So that there's a chief stone and amon sule which was um that Weather top I believe which used to be a watch tower. So there was a stone there But it sounds like that got taken and it was Lost in a in a bay.

I guess an ice bay. I'm sure. Yeah There was osgiliath Which had a stone and I think was was lost in the stone of menace ithal which soran captured Um and they're saying that it was probably destroyed in the destruction of

baradir Um, you know, what's a funny image is this idea that saran captures a palanter and he spends all this effort Like bending it to his wheel to his will and then you know, he spends most of his time up in his um up in his bitch tower And then every time he wants to communicate to saruman he has to commute to his little tower I'm assuming he could take the palanter with him, but it'd be funny if it was one of the big boulder ones that was just like hard to move I have to go take a phone call

And so oh and actually this is interesting apparently there was one that was taken back to the undying lands on the ring bearer ship So there was one that went with brodo and gadoff and gladria on el ron. It makes me wonder Did they have one is he calling home did el ron and gladria will have one who's who's stone was that?

Um, yeah, and it makes you wonder if there's ever like if frodo ever calls back home Yeah, that could

be wild and so then to probably not to your point. It sounds like there's two remaining There's the one that was at or think and then there's the one that denifer was using Although they say the one that denifer was using was kind of marred. So it had some had some issues But it's like you dropped.

Yeah, exactly. It all cracked sometimes connects The screen is clapped. Yeah I love that but overall Really really fascinating.

I'm trying to see well.

I love the imagery of those stars in the crest being Palantir's I did not know that that's beautiful.

And I just think that adds so much symbolism to like Yeah, I don't know. They're saying like we're a connected kingdom.

We have this like it It's it's fun to see that and it's fun to see like they um Like when I see it when I watch the movies or when I read about the next time round like I don't remember that I was like, oh, yeah, that's a palantir. Yeah, you know, it's just a little tidbit. It's wild Yeah, oh my goodness.

Well, I love this. I think palantir are so cool I would have a palantir.

I feel like it's it would take a lot of practice though to be like, okay I'm thinking of the thing I want to be thinking of

I'm thinking 100 percent Every time I use it. I'd be afraid that some like subconscious Side thought would creep in and ruin everything just like sometimes you just have those intrusive thoughts, right?

Like this is the worst time to have that I'm really trying to be focused right now Yes, I've never meditated I suspect I'd be very poor at it. Um, and I suspect it's the still you would need for this time

I feel like I feel like yeah, I feel like that's key Also, I was just thinking of those

beacons and they might have more across like the whole land But I feel like those were to mainly

communicate with Rohan, which like

Rohan didn't have no stairstones They were real

basic Yeah, there's no chance That's true. So it's probably like we have several interlaced communication networks our high level one for communicating with high level beings Like across our kingdom, right?

Yeah. Yeah, and then our club one for communicating with our horse with everyone else Yeah, yeah, I love that. Thank you. Thanks for looking that out.

Of course. Thanks for joining us Had a great time chatting through it and we'll have to see what our next deep dive is going to be But all right, have a great rest of your day. Take care.

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