Hi there, I'm Stephanie.

And I'm Lydia.

Come along with us as we explore and learn about the world of Tolkien through deep dives on lore, characters, beat-a-lons, and laugh-a-lons.

We are excited to have you as a new friend on this journey with us. Welcome to Speak Friend and Enter, a Lord of the Rings podcast. Hi, hello, hello.

Welcome back. Welcome back.

Today is a special day because typically Lydia and I do this podcast saying remote long distance.

Yeah, at a safe distance.

At a safe distance. Where Stephanie cannot get her claws into me any tighter than they are. And Lydia's in Utah. And today we are together for our pod-aversary. Close enough. Close enough to just have fun and discuss podcasts and do some filming and episodes together. So it's been really fun.

But today we are discussing chapter 17 and 18 in Simerillian, I believe. And oh my goodness, I know we say this lately, the last couple of episodes, but this is where it's getting to the good stuff.

Yeah, we're going to be saying that until the very last chapter.

Like finally, the good stuff is really coming now.

I'll wait. So the last note we left off on was like kind of this really bitter note with Madeleine.

A weird little in-depth. Yeah.

Carameo of this guy. And I'm looking at the mess that's now happened and I'm thinking he's going to mess this up even more. So I'm getting really excited for whatever the nonsense he's about to be up to.

Yeah. And so, so I guess kind of the summary of chapter 17 and then the summary of chapter 18 before we dig in is chapter 17 is of the coming of men into the West. And so we know it's been referenced that men kind of came during this time period and they woke up with the sun.

So they were like children of the light because they weren't born under darkness. But we haven't really heard that much about them and what they're doing with their civilization. No, we've heard nothing. We've heard nothing.

And I'll be totally real. I read chapter 18 first on accident. And I read something that was like, and then the men who were doing this with so-and-so, I thought, wow, that was really fast. I guess we just don't get to learn about them. Turns out there's a whole chapter.

There's a whole chapter. So if you're curious about that, here we go.

And then chapter 18 gets into the good stuff that we mentioned, which is when things really start going sideways and malaria. Yeah. So, OK, we will start.

So the first little bit, I really like how this opens on Feligin, just being a total creeper. And anyway, he's off doing elvish things. He's having a nice little moonlit ride in the woods. And he hears music and he thinks himself, like the dark elves don't sing at night.

What is this? And I thought that was interesting because I guess if there was no entertainment, like if there was no TV, there was no other sort of entertainment, you would think actually that they would be singing at night. Yeah. Like, you know, around the fire. What else do you do?

I really like the dark elves. Aren't they the ones that love to the start, like born into the stars? So maybe at night they're just like

pondering life, looking up at the stars.

I wonder if they are. What's the word? I just completely lost it. They completely flipped. They sleep during the day and they're out at night. What does that word?

They would say nocturnal. Thank you. Living their their best day to day night to night activities under the stars.

So he hears this song and this is just like a comment from me because later he like plays on their harp and and it's like amazing stuff. He's never like they've never heard before because they're just, you know, babes of men. But Feligin, I wonder if he heard the song and thought, what is that? It's so bad.

When I think of like the music they're playing, I think like drums. I think a fiddle, which probably wasn't there. I just think like kind of a ruckus sound.

And so it's funny to me. So he was listening. He was creeping around. He heard this music. He was listening and it is really sweet. He says like his heart was, I don't know if this is exact verbiage, but it's like heart was softened towards them or basically like he had, he had sympathetic and kind feelings towards them.

No, yeah, from the beginning, which is really cute. I don't know how to like compare this. I guess it'd be like if I was wandering around the woods and I saw like three tiny little cute little

tiger kittens or something, you know, just something so cute. And I think it was interesting how Tolkien phrases why the men are singing, because now they've entered Beleriand. It says they sang because they were glad and believed that they had a state from all perils and had come that last to a land without fear.

So there's like actually a falsehood hanging over them because we know from chapter 18 what's about to happen to Beleriand. Yeah. Um, but it's nice. It's nice. And it says, Lawn fell into and watched them and love for them stirred in his heart. It's so cute.

Love at first sight. So now they're all passing out. They're tired. And he took up a rude harp. I just love that comment. It's just like, you know, poorly strung, probably out of tune.

Did he bring this or did he just like whip up a harp

from the bay or the chieftain was playing on this harp?

He took it up because it's a man made.

Yes, exactly. And he played music upon it, such as the ears of men had not heard for they had as yet no teachers in the art save only the dark elves. And I think it's really funny that they say no teachers. There were dark elves, but obviously they're so bad at it that like, you know I mean, there's a

lot of sense towards the dark elves in this little snippet. Wild, wild. So they wake up, they think they're dreaming, but they're not. Because of this beautiful music. Yes. And I mean, like this is your first sight of an elf and Felidrond, he went Valor, right? Yeah, he's one of the Noldor. He's one of the Noldor. And we had previously kind of talked a little bit about how

they say things like, you know, the difference between a Noldor or some, the difference between an elf who has seen the light of Valor versus one that has not is like massive as, as large as a difference between an elf and a man, which is like insane to me.

Um, so I like this line. It says they believed at first that Felidrond was one of the Valor of whom they had heard rumor. I just love the idea that there's like this rumor of gods and they have no hope of ever meeting them. Yeah. They've heard it, like even in, even from this time.

Um, so it was nice. And this goes into the part that I thought was so interesting because like Lydia said, they were dancing and singing because they felt like they had missed or moved into this safe haven from kind of darkness. And you're like, what darkness are they talking about? And when they wake up and the chieftain starts talking with this elf that's like put them in this, this day's day, like, Oh my goodness, who are you?

Like, you're so amazing. That's when you start realizing and you get some back info that Morgoth do, up to his typical tricks. He was always there trying to kind of coerce and find things to do to the elves when they first came and he's been doing something similar to the men.

Right. And they've just been dealing with all these dark creatures that

have since come out into the land from Morgoth, right?

And also what I think is funny, so you get a little bit of that from the men's perspective of like, there's been terrible things happening around us. But then you get a little bit of like

Morgoth thoughts about why he's doing it. What happened? And it's so like Morgoth's like, Oh, there's a new creature.

I got to go out there and I got to like kind of see if I can get them to lean my way.

But for whatever reason, whether it's like men were just oblivious or they were not as useful, it says it was taking a long time. And so Morgoth's like, Oh, it was slow to ripen and never wholly achieved. And so he was growing more afraid of the Eldar, right? The elves close home. And so he was like, Okay,

give him a project on, on, we're going to go back to my main deal and it says the servants that he left behind were less might and less cunning. So you kind of get the impression like whatever baby men were like, he was like, they were probably two, like, what's the word? They weren't even, they just hadn't leveled up to like a cultural level where his themes could work. Yeah. Because all of his themes are like these dissensions and these like cunning weasel and they're just like, we need fire and we need.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I just thought that was hilarious because men are like, yeah, there's all these creepy things hanging around.

And then Morgoth's like, I tried, but you're annoyingly slow.

You're dim-witted on like the elves. So I thought that was hilarious on that note. I liked how at first like it says it seemed to him so great a matter.

This is the arrival of man. And he's not wrong that he's secretly under shadow. He himself departed from Ainbad. And I think it was cool that this is one of those instances that he left because we've we've been lawn into the phase of Morgoth does not leave.

He's huddling. Yeah. So I liked this idea of like, all right, this is one of those scenes that caused him to break his like self exile. And then just a note back onto like when, when the men are asked about their past, there's just so little. And I thought it was interesting the phrase, a silence had fallen upon their memory, a darkness lies behind us, Bayor said, and we have turned our backs upon it. And we do not desire to return to their even in thought. Yeah. Westwards, our hearts have been turned and we believe that there we shall find light.

So they have almost like messianic drive behind this, this migration. And I thought it was interesting. I wondered if maybe Tolton, the fact I thought it was very interesting that the the past of men is shadowed. Like they don't remember it or they don't want to remember it's lost. And I thought maybe Tolton was making some allusion to how like the past of Britain maybe is also.

The lack of folklore. Well, and it was so interesting because it said, because you get the impression, you know, this elf is asking them about their past. And he's like, tell me about your birth. You know what he means?

He's like, tell me like your origin story. That would be so interesting. And then that they don't know.

And they don't know. And further, it says almost like our ancestors didn't talk about it. Yeah.

Right. Like maybe they didn't write it down. Write it down. They didn't tell us. Or there was a lack of oral tradition. It's interesting. And so it's not just that it was a dark history, but it's kind of like.

Better to be. It wasn't preserved. Like nobody thought to carry this forward. Yeah. And I just think that's so interesting. Like it's very sad, but I can imagine being like fellow and being like, I am so excited to hear everything they have to say. And then the disappointment, the pure disappointment of what do you know?

Like your origins and like how you all came to me. And especially from his perspective, it was like yesterday, what do you mean? You don't know your origins. It was so recent. Yeah. Yeah. So that was fun.

There's other sessions here. So really basically Feligin takes them in and well, they don't move from their spot yet. And there's an interesting bit here where the green owls of Assyrian are troubled. And they say this, these folk, the men are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts. Therefore, we are their unfriends.

And if they will not depart, we shall afflict them in all ways that we can. I like really laughed a little bit when I read that sentence. Because at first I was like, what kind of censorship is this? Like that they don't use the word enemy.

I love that we are their unfriend. Yeah, it feels almost like I mean, I don't use to talk or anything. But I think my understanding is that like on to talk, you have to censor certain words.

Oh, yeah. And it kind of felt like that was like they're making up this dumb word because they're not allowed to say enemy. But then another thought I heard was like, maybe enemy has such connotations for them. And it's a malice.

Yeah. Maybe it's literally only reserved for like Mordorff and his people. And so like they don't want to put men at that level. And so they're searching for like a lesser.

We don't hate you, but we're not friendly with you.

Yeah, and therefore unfriend. I mean, it's good enough. I just laughed when I saw that. It was interesting.

I thought that was bold. Yeah. So these men came over, they're like, we're found a new land. There's safety. And the Green Elves are like, nope. This is our land, full like move on.

Yes. And we're getting kind of that vibe at the end of when the Noldor came in and everyone said, actually, everything's full.

Yeah. You wanted to come here and like have this life, but you didn't realize like we have a life here. Yeah. Yeah.

But even with all that happening, so they moved to a slightly different spot, even with all that happening, I thought this was really cute. Many other elves journeyed to Estelad. So that's the place where they're currently at the man being eager to see the Adain who's coming had long been foretold. What a fun little thing. Like it almost makes them like a circus act. But the vibe I got from it was that there are elves making pilgrimages, essentially. Like this is a theme of prophecy.

This is like very feels almost like a biblical sort of thing. Yeah. How fun for them? Like here it is. Finally, men are there. And I was just like, oh, let's go see them. Let's go on a trip. So we've got all these like elves road tripping out to Estelad. Yeah. To check out the men, which was fun.

And this is the first time they use the word eating, eating, which is really important on the road, because this is the these are the people that Aragorn is descended from.

He is from the eating, which we now know means elf friend. Yeah. Right. So it's like the men who befriended the elves back when they were almost in their very beginning.

Yeah, I love that. And I think we should know as well. So this was a very particular because men didn't really know their origins. This was a very particular sect of men. So their leader was Beor and they are the ones who kind of had this really close friendship with the Noldor. But also, you know, the Green Elves have a bit of a point because they're not the only group of men. Yes. And there are tons of other ones. We actually have sections of us, fractions of us. And they are also going to be coming over the mountain. They're also looking for peace. Yeah.

It also talks here about how many young and either men of the Edain went away and took service with the teens and lords of the elder. And I thought that was fun because from the men's perspective, it's like, OK, we're coming into a new land. Here are these, you know, ethereal wise beings.

Of course, we should go with them, learn from them, etc. And from the Elves perspective, I still sort of get vibes of like, all right, I've come, I've seen the man, let's take one home. Yeah, it's a little bit of a pet vibe. Yeah, let's adopt this puppy.

So yeah. And the men, he's Edain that first have this encounter with the elves. They're smitten. They're like, you are wise. Like they start calling them a name, which is my wisdom. And so you get a sense of a very close relationship here. But funny enough, so Thingol. Because there's more men coming and Thingol is part of, you know, kind of that non-nulled or green elf section. Section. He's like, I'm displeased.

Like, King Thingol is displeased at everything.

None say Felidrin took house with King Thingol and he was ill pleased. Yeah, he's so cranky all the time. And I like I respect that.

He's so cranky, but I also think he does have wisdom. Like the stuff that he's saying makes total sense.

Not wrong, but he's always so a little contrarian.

So mad about it. And Mellion actually does a prophecy.

But she doesn't do it in front of him. No, she doesn't. This would this caught my eye. So Thingol in his obstinance says, In Dodoroth shall no man come while my realm last, not even those of the House of Beor, who serve Finrod the beloved. And, you know, when you go that specific when in your little curse, you really should reflect on yourself and think maybe I shouldn't have said that. And Mellion said nothing to him at the time. But afterwards, she said to Galadriel, yeah, yep, one of those men, even of Beor's house, shall indeed come.

Yeah. And this is our first foreshadowing to Baron from the Baron and Luthien towel, which is coming up. But I love that Galadriel because I think we said like she was living there for a period of time because she fell in love. She went away from their town or their kingdom. But then, yeah, I think she went away for a bit. But I love that they're still almost like this little gal chat. Yeah, between Mellion and Galadriel.

I haven't even noticed it until you point out, but it does look like she's back hanging out with Mellion. Yeah. And that's good because Thingol at the time, he had said, you know, my heart is hot. Leave me for now. But this is not forever. And so we can see now that it wasn't forever.

And I wonder too, because Thingol is like very upset about even more people coming into the kingdom or are trying to. Yeah. And Galadriel is part of the Noldor, right? So she, her people from her side, she's probably hearing people say like, look at these guys.

They're crazy cool. And so Mellion's kind of confiding in her and a little more of like she thinks she's probably less biased, right? Yeah. And she's like, yeah, guess what? I actually do think one of those fools is going to make it into the kingdom at some point.

So anyways. And I think from here, it's many years. Yeah. I could be wrong. I'm not good at team track of the years, but it's many years from here. OK, and here's the thing. OK, where are we at?

To do, to do, to do. OK, so the men are living in Estalad. And it looks like they have finally achieved enough culture because then it says, then dissensions awoke among the ordain in which the shadow of Mordor may be discerned.

So finally, they're starting to have a little conflict. They're finally cultured enough that his attacks can work.

Yeah. And it says like, and he doesn't like this growing friendship with the elves, which makes sense. Yeah.

And so we started seeing it's actually interesting.

It's a weird council. What did you think about this? There's a weird council. I actually liked it because I thought, man, he's really showcasing all the different ways. I don't know, a culture.

All the different kind of thoughts. All the lines of thoughts. Because so what has happened is men have come over. They've met these what they have been considering like pretty wise people.

But then all of these other sex of men are coming over as well. And they're they don't have quite the same buddy buddy relationship. Maybe a little bit. They haven't been in there. But they're just like, how much do we believe these guys? Right? Like that's kind of the topic of this. Yeah.

And one of my favorite things here, and it comes at the end of the council, but one of my favorite things is one of the elves at some point says, surely now you believe there's a dark lord. And I just love that that was like in doubt. Yeah. Like in this world, we're bought in. Yeah. But they were not.

So the things that are in question. So they come over, the elves teach them all this stuff about Valar, about Morgoth, about all this. So the things that are in question, that there is a West, that there's gods, and that there's this heaven, right?

And whether meant to go

to it, which sounds like they're not concluding that they cannot. And then there's this concept of a dark lord, right? Living in the north and that all evil things are kind of coming from him.

And then I think there was kind of a last thing, which was almost like. And we should be allied with the elves and we should be helping them in their question of is this our problem?

Yeah. Are we independent from this? Exactly. Yeah. And I just this is so I feel like Morgoth really played his hand a little bit too openly here because at one point to me, it sounds like they're just having this big moot, this big meeting.

And maybe it's like a Viking one, right? Where it lasts over the course of like a month. So like every day they're just debating and talking and discussing. And it sounds as at some point there's a man, Amlic, who gets up and starts giving this long spiel about how it's not our problem.

If there's a dark lord, it's the elves problem, etc. That's basically who stands. And then everyone is like really persuaded because he's speaking super persuasively. And then it says, and then Amlic came back and denied everything he had said and everyone was like, oh, but we saw you and we heard you. And now we know about like this shapeshifting secret spies, etc. And I can imagine that that would so a lot of fear. Like the idea that somebody could walk around wearing your face, coming to your important, maybe even secret meetings, speaking in your name and then escape without being caught. Very interesting.

But again, I kind of feel there was a little bit of body snatching because it does feel like body snatching now a coral of my own with a master of lies.

Yeah. And so yeah, but the fact that Mordor had to go to that length to like just pretend to be someone instead of actually twisting that person or persuading them to say that of their own volition. Because we never saw him do that with the elves in Valoranor and possibly they would have seen through it, though I got the impression they're elves in this meeting. So yeah, we never saw him do the body snatching thing before.

And it feels like he was just like, OK, I can't dedicate a lot of time to this project. I'm just going to send one or two body snatchers. Let's see what they can do. I've been trying to worm my way into men's like thoughts and minds and twist them to my way.

And it's just so slow because they're so dense. I thought his methods were interesting. Yeah. But in the end, it looks like it is it backfires on him quite a bit.

And it's interesting because so they have this council. There's a little bit of like, oh, my goodness, wait a second, like there was this person that was speaking very convincing and then maybe they themselves was an object of, yeah, this evil that we think might be coming from the north. Yeah. And so I would say there's not a super firm conclusion for men coming out of this.

There's just a sense of distrust and a bit of fear. Yes. And so that's, I think, where it's kind of staying.

And then they still have this relationship with the elves, but Morgoth is like, you know, I want to see if I could hurt men more. And so we start sending or grades. Yeah.

So we start getting like an escalation in the the temperature of the conflict. So we get or grades. And now we did this little because of these or grades. There are a lot of people killed. And we get this little side story that I thought was interesting about Halith.

Yeah. So her father is killed. Her brother is killed. And then it says, then Halith held the people together, though they were without hope, very sad. And they stuck with her. So she takes over the chieftainship, I guess. And they start leaving. These are one of the groups that are trying to leave and remove themselves from this trouble.

They weren't living directly with the elves.

There was a sect that was a little bit closer to the elves. This wasn't one of the original sects. They were kind of one of these men on the outskirts, a colony on the outskirts, and they're moving. And they keep on moving. It says they remained a people apart and were ever after known to elves and men as the people of Halith. So she sends them on this migration through some really, really rough territory. Even to the point where they don't want to do it anymore. And it says she was constraining them to go forward by the strength of her will. That's crazy. And they finally end up in Breathil, which is one of King Fingal's.

Technically part of King Fingal. And I'm like, girl, you were forcing them to

move, but you were even looking where you were going. Like, didn't you not know? He's not that friendly. Yeah.

So and it says he would have denied it to them. But Felidund, who did have the angel's friendship, weighed in and obtained this grace for her, which is just like Felidund coming in clutch.

He's the one with the heart. He's like, best man, a friend. Yeah, his sound. Best friend of man. Yeah. So that's great. And so now Halith's people are given a task.

They're like, OK, we're going to say. You can stay. But you have to guard this passage.

Yeah. And I really liked her answer. She says to this, Halith answered, where are Haldad, my father and Halder, my brother? If the teen of Doroth fears a friendship between Halith and those who have devoured her tin, interesting choice of words there and possibly literal, then the thoughts of the elder are strange to men. So, you know, it's a little bit of an insult, obviously.

So Fingal says, OK, I'll give you this land. If you make sure the orcs don't come through this passage.

Yeah, and don't make any alliances with them. Is that OK with you?

And Halith says, what are you talking about? Of course. Man, like they killed my family.

So, yeah. She's down. It's good. She dies there, which is sad. She seemed like a really interesting. We want to get like three paragraphs essentially characterizing her. I really thought she was interesting.

I loved her because this is, you know, Tolkien has women in his and his Simerillian and his books. But this is a really interesting one because you see her being a leader, right? She's a noble woman.

Her her father, her brother die. I get strong Aeoan vibes here. Like when the Aedans are writing off to war and he said, I've told. And and her brother, Eomir is writing off to war. And he says, I've given orders, right? That if we should die, the people should follow your lead. And my dad, right?

And it does make me wonder what is the origin? You're getting what is the origin of the people over a Han? Do they come out of this lineage?

I don't think they're Aedane. So I don't think they're the elf friends. Yeah. But it is just so fascinating because she actually because Aeoan, we know has her own journey. She does, you know, have a part in ruling Rohan, but she does, you know, get partnered with Faramir. But this girl, she's never married. She is a strong leader, but you get the impression.

So people want to be under her leadership, but she puts her people through some tough times. Yeah. I don't know. I just I think this is such a realistic version of like seeing a female leader who's had a hard life and she's done well. Like, I don't know. I loved it. Or at least done interesting.

Done interesting and well enough, right? Yeah. To defend her people and take care of them. Yeah, I really like that. A little bit later on after here, we did our first mention of the name Boramir.

Oh, I didn't see that. Where's that? It says, but in Dorthonian, the lordship of the people of Bayor and the country of Laderos was given to Boramir, son of Boron, who was a grandson of Bayor. So we know now the lineage so that well, I guess we know that that name comes from the same lineage as Baron. Yeah. And that means that's cool to me. It makes it like a really cool old name.

They literally are like the Gondorians have a similar lineage. And so when when Boramir is talking to Aragorn and he's like my brother, right? Like there is some lineage component to that.

I don't know if Boramir is in that lineage or if he's just named after that lineage that could be interesting if it was like the stewards come from a different line, but they want to be part of that original line. Yeah. So I have no sense of that, but I love the name. Let's see. I had another mark in here.

We're getting towards the end now of all the the details with the men. Yes.

Oh, this is good. I unless you have something before this, I want to talk about the death of Bayor.

Oh, OK. Yeah. Let me see. Actually, I think there was one thing I kind of wanted to discuss. So we're talking about Boramir. But I do think it's interesting because they talk about so they have this friendship with the elves, these men do. But it says all these were caught in the net of the doom of the Noldor. And so what's fascinating is something that's kind of referenced in this chapter is the elves like these men, but they also notice a sense of valor in them. And so they're bringing them under their wing. They're bringing them into their cities. They're living together.

Friendship, but there's also this might be useful.

This could be useful to us. And so you get the sense that they're making alliances, not just friendships, but alliances for potential battle.

And so these men and actually now that I now that you say that it's like the Noldor know a lot more about what's going on here. So it is a little bit of knowledge.

They have a lot of knowledge background. They know what they're up to. And so technically, these men are in this friendship. They're benefiting a lot either the sense of civilization grows, but also like because of this friendship in this alliance, they're more tightly wound to what we're getting the sense is going to be a very soon battle or doom.

And I really enjoy the sense that the the curse of the Noldor is contagious. Yeah, it's who they loop in. Well, it's just like everywhere they go, anyone that they're in close contact with gets sucked in any land where they're in becomes like ripe with conflict. Yeah, it's just I love I like that sense that it's a contagion. Yeah. Yeah. So so here we have Bayward dies and it says he lives.

The original leader.

Yes. Who was discovered by the elves. Ninety three years and for forty four of them, he had served Felodun. That's so interesting. He's not his whole life. So he was young when the elves discovered them. Anyways, it says, and when he lay dead of no wound or grief, I really enjoyed that the elves saw wounds or grief as being the two possible. That's grief. That's sad.

Yeah, which we have seen. But stricken by age, the Eldor saw for the first time the swift waning of the life of men and the death of weariness, another really interesting characterization, which they knew not in themselves. And they grieved greatly for the loss of their friends.

And I liked how it doesn't just say they grieved for Bayward, but they grieve for all the friends they were about to lose, you know, because they knew now how quickly it was. And I'm sure they had some some sense of this. But now they've seen it for real. They see Bayward and they weren't thinking to themselves, oh, he's old. They didn't know to fear it the way they do now. And now they're like, wow, sure, Bayward just died. But my other favorite is his cousin, who's only two years younger, right? It's just very tragic. Yeah.

And it's funny. OK, to go along with this, I'm reading some extra details of like life. So it's so interesting because it says. Tolkien does go in a little bit to like what did the men look like? And they were like brown hair, brown eyes, or some people. Oh, yes, there was some destruction in that. But it was so funny because so they were men.

I had swift understanding and long in memory. We're kind of the ones that you're getting the impression where the one the house of Bayward and the favorites of the Elves and the favorites of the Elves. But then you have they say the woolen folk of Haleth, which is this other woman and they were of lesser stature, less eager for the war. They didn't love their words and they they kind of wandered the lands in the west. But you get the sense that their time it says their time was kind of brief and their days unhappy. And you get the impression like they had a hard life.

Yeah. But it says the years of the Aidae were lengthened. And so you get the impression that because they as line themselves with the Elves, they are living a better life.

A little bit of their glory seems to have run off on them, too. Yeah. And.

But it sounds like the common man. Yeah, it's a hard life.

Yeah. So I thought that was a good point because it does seem like already we've started to have this split. Yeah. Like men, the long lived men. Which I think become numinor versus like common man. Yeah. I had to notice that.

I liked the very last line of this chapter. Yeah. So it says the Aidae of old learn swiftly all the elder of the elder. All such are acknowledges they could receive. Again, another good note here is like, you know, some things might have been beyond them. and they far surpassed all others of mankind, who dwelt still east of the mountains and had not seen the elder, nor looked upon the faces that had beheld the light of Valinor. Now this was fascinating to me, because I feel like we're seeing the same divide amongst men that we have amongst the elves. So the ones that have seen the light, because we've talked about how like the ones that have seen the light of Valinor versus the elves who have not, they're distinguished. And now we have this divide between men. Men who have seen, not the light of Valinor, but the faces of the people who have seen the light of Valinor.

The trees or the light of Valinor, yeah. Yeah, it's like through a mirror darkly, right? So like they've seen it, but filtered. And those ones are now distinguished from all the other sorts of men who haven't even approached this.

And I love that. There's just this, the whole thing that's out here, constantly forcing these, not forcing, but like creating these schisms. And it's all about who has seen the light and who has not.

It's, he adds layers. Cause I think it's so easy to be like, oh, and men and elves and this and that.

And I think that they're one mask, but they're not. They're not. And I think it actually shows a lot of like real civilization. Like the leader of this town and what his impressions were and how that affected his people.

And the way that these people lived and how their time was hard because they were, you know, they did not have the protection of kind of these other powers. And like it's just, it's fascinating to see. And what's even more fascinating, he doesn't just create them, but you see the impact of them for generations. By the time you get to the Lord of the Rings movies, you're still seeing the impact of these decisions. Yeah, and Aragorn is 87 or whatever. And let's not at all.

And I think there's something additional that's going to be adding in the length of life.

That's cool. I'm excited for that. And not like the Aidaing get double the life. But you can imagine that.

But you still see that they're more prosperous and more likely to live longer. Yeah, exactly. And that could just be like a safer land, you know, better food, whatever.

Better food. Less of a hard life. Yeah, their genetics are starting to take into account. This is life is a little easier. Maybe. Chapter 18. Excellent chapter. Yes, love chapter 17. Okay, this is where I have to say, I was chatting a little earlier today and I was like, you know, whoever, I think it was Christopher, the son that kind of put together a similar line in his current order. I don't know how Tolkien like was writing these things on his own.

But there is like, when you first started a sense of, why do I have these random stories in here? Like, Thingol and Melian. Like, I remember talking about that and just being like, but we had no context for it.

Okay, there's a guy named Thingol and

there's this and it's enchanted by this like, a Maya named Melian and like, they go, they talk about all the different gods and like how things can be. And you're just like, okay, cool. But why do I know this?

Why this Baraja fact? And I have to say, up until chapter 17, I think was kind of the content of, oh, this is just interesting content, like layering on top of another. Chapter 18, I feel like is when Tolkien is like, okay, use your full knowledge of what I've given you and let's dig into something.

Now that you know the characters, here's the actual drama, right?

Here's the drama, yeah. And so chapter 18 is of the ruin of Beleriand and the fall of Engulfed. So it's all gonna come out.

And I mean, the first line I have here kind of conveys the sense like in chapter 17, there's not really any conflict. We get some interesting first contact between peoples, but we don't have any like real troubles.

A little bit of like friendship alliances, things being tested, but not a lot.

And this is the result. Because the land was fair and their kingdoms wide, most of the Noldor were content with things as they were, trusting them to last. And slow to be done an assault in which many must surely perish, were it in vitri or in defeat? So we have Fingolfinn who looks around and says, you know what, we need to make an effort on Mordoth. And I thought it was really interesting that the elves say many must surely perish either in vitri or in defeat. And maybe think about how the elves probably fear death more than man. For man, death is inevitable. It's done a ditch you at any point. Yeah. Can come for you at any time and is for sure coming.

And you kind of have an expiration date. Yeah, for elves, it is not a short theme. And so yeah, I'm with them. I would be hesitant to start some more if I felt like the land was at peace enough.

And I think it's tough because you get the impression. So when they left the Valar, they were really being driven by the leadership who wanted the Simerallians. But the people, I think were... They were just...

They were like, maybe there's another life up there. Yeah, they were being incited. And so they were driven up in passion. But I think their main goal is like, oh, we want to go roam the land and feel free.

Yeah, where we originally came from and have a different life. And so I feel badly because you're like, OK, these are the people who are like, we're living our dream.

This is what we came for. But it's all fake because of the curse of the Moldor. He's like, because we promised, we had this oath that we were going to come for Morgoth.

Morgoth Avengers is going to come for us, right? And it does. OK, this line was fantastic. So they neglect to go on the offensive. And so Morgoth comes to them after his long preparations.

And there's a strong sentence here, which was like kind of scary. Let's see. Do you have it? It might not be the same one I highlighted. I thought it was so great. OK, so it says, for Morgoth had long prepared his force in secret, while ever the malice of his heart grew greater and hatred of the Moldor grew more bitter. And he not only wanted to hurt them, but defy the lands that they had taken.

But this is the thing. And it is said that his hate overcame his counsel. So that if he had but endured to wait longer until his designs were full, then the Moldor would have perished utterly. But on his part, he esteemed too lightly the valor of the elves and the men he took yet no account.

Yeah, I missed that one. That was a really good line.

Like if he had just waited a little longer, a little bit longer, and it makes you wonder what little more thing. Was it just like a few more orcs or a few more dragons? So by the way, he kicked it off as amazing. Then suddenly Morgoth sent forth great rivers of flame that ran down swifter than ball rods from the Thandorodrim and poured over all the plane. Yeah.

So basically, everyone is just completely. He said the natural disaster first. Yeah, he said the natural disaster first.

He sends fire and I will say also, I'm going to probably skim over some of the names of the locations because his chapter on geography, Tolkien's chapter and everything that he's talked about in terms of geography comes into play in this chapter strongly. But man, it's hard to keep track of everything.

And for me, it was just noting what he sent. Yeah. So first the lava, then we have dragons. And I just really liked front of that fire came Glauron the Golden father of dragons. So cool. So he's finally fully grown is what's happened here. Yeah. And in his chain were ball rods and behind the ball rods were orcs. So just a terrific force.

And then so we know he sends fire, he sends lava. But then from this, he has fumes, right?

He's got about the fumes. He says, when his fumes and a choking dust. So you get the impression that he's somehow able to not only muster up army, he's able to change the land that these people have been able to successfully live on till they're not able to.

Yeah. And it says in your sentence that you said before about how he was furious that they had taped in the land and made it fair. Yeah. You know, he feels this need to ruin it. I really like the sentence that says war ceased not holy. Ever again in Beleriand. And I think Beleriand is one of the ones that is going to get swept away by the sea, right? It is. And so just war, war, war until destruction.

This is the beginning of the end, because we know how this ends is barren or not. When I think a descendant of Baron and Luthien are going to go to the baller and are going to say help. And then the war is going to be so intense that Beleriand is going to sink. So this is the beginning of the end. This never ends until Beleriand is gone. OK.

And then I think there's a lot of battle. I don't know if we need to go into any details here. Yeah, I like this line.

It kind of sums it up. Thus ended the siege of Anbad, which lasted, I think last count, some 400 something plus years and did nothing. Because obviously it didn't prevent them from creating an army. Yeah. And I don't know that they could have done anything in their defense. But it definitely did nothing.

When they said the siege of Anbad, I kind of thought, what's siege? Because in reality, the elves first.

And they hadn't even finished in circle yet. And they had it intact. But then what they started doing is they started building cities around Anbad, kind of the thought process of if we can kind of keep him in there.

How much harm can he do? Yeah. But when we found out they weren't really offensively attacking. They should have taken away his volcano. Why did you leave your enemy a volcano?

But it says here, this is ultimately what happens. The foes of Mordoth were scattered and sundered one from another. And so, yeah, we get many more paragraphs about this, but it's just about this person was brave and he held the scene, but he was separated by either lava or orcs or whatever from all the other allies.

So it was just a struggle all over the land. And we should clarify, I think this was mainly heading the north. So this is where the Noldor had specifically settled.

Yes, because no one else wanted to be there. And no one else wanted to be there. And they were like, OK, we have this mission to, you know, Mordoth's our enemy, so it's fine if we're here. But then people were fleeing their refugees and they were going to Thingol.

They're like, help. And so Thingol, to his credit, he did take people into his borders so that he could, you know, refuge them. Yeah. And so I think Thingol is kind of probably this is his moment where he's like, all

my prophecies, all my thoughts are coming true. Like, who's been wise? Who's been gracious? It's Thingol.

It's like, look at these cursed Noldor being cursed.

And suddenly I seem so right, right?

Like, he's he's like, you know, it is it was Thingol's best moment. And then we did this thing, Dolphin. So everything is in ruins and Thingol, then goes to on bod. And it says he he rides a horse.

So he's the leader of the Noldor right now. And he's just in pain, seeing his people getting decimated.

Yeah. And so he rides as quickly as he can. And I like the phrase all that beheld his onset fled in a maze, thinking that or Rome himself was calm because that is the way he looked. He had a purpose. He came alone to on bod's gates and he sounded his horn and smote once more upon the brazen doors because they have been here before.

He was one of the original ones. Or his uncle. I think him, too. Right. Yeah, yeah, they all came. And they had they have done this moment before they have done this before and challenged more gods to come forth to single combat.

So he's like, maybe I can save my people. Yes. Right. So he's saying my people are dying. They're decimated. Cut the head off the snake. Maybe I can go and if I challenge more God than kill him, maybe this will end.

And we both read the net sentence. It was like, whoa, shocked of my life. Because three word sentence. Yeah. And it says and Mordorff came and that was a huge surprise. Yeah. Why on earth would he accept this challenge?

Come out like he's already doing well.

But did this. It's obvious now. Why? And then that's paragraph. But Mordorff could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains. I think the captains are the Balrog.

Yeah. He has like, yeah.

I guess he's not a few. Yeah. For the rocks rain with the shrill music of Fingolfin's horn and his voice came clean and clear down into the depths. And Fingolfin named Mordorff Craven and Lord of Slaves. Therefore, Mordorff came climbing slowly from his subterranean throne. And the rumor of his feet was like thunder underground. What a what a amazing phrase.

Just you get the impression of a giant.

Such a good imagery. A giant. Such good imagery. Yeah. So actually David and Goliath is the is the guy I get for this battle. Yeah. And he's got to stay face in front of his captains, which I enjoyed a lot because if we consider some of the Balrogs as captains remember when they came to rescue him from an orient.

They're Maya. That's true. They're powerful. Yeah. But but like the fact that the Balrogs went out against undolient for him out of the sense of loyalty. So yeah, I guess there is some kind of like play here where and maybe Fingolfin knew this, but like where he really can force Mordorff to come out because he has to show that he's deserving of the sort of loyalty that the Balrogs have previously given him. And like, I guess maybe Sauron, but and the thing that I get and they don't really talk about this because they do seem like they're the decent model loyalty on that side. But he has the Simmerals. The Simmerals are strong enough to like take this uneasy alliance he had with on Goliath and Goliath attacked him. Yeah. And like, I wonder if there's a sense of lust and greed he thinks rising up from his lower ranks. Sure. And so it's not only

like I want to prove myself to my friend. Somebody will come and take my Simmerals. A bit of defense. A bit of defense. Yeah, I could see that. So he comes out in all his terror and it says he hurled a loft grand, the hair of the underworld and I'll call my eye.

Because don't we have in the movies?

We have a grand. We have a grand. Yeah. So it's the they call it the Wolf's Head, I think. Bring out the Wolf's Head. Yeah. So this is the huge battering ram.

That's like one of the coolest moments in that movie. And I looked it up because I was like, is is maybe that battering ram made from the remnants of Morgoth's early named as a homage. Yeah.

So I did not see anything about like, oh, you know, Morgoth's hammer was melted down and turned into this batting ram. But it definitely was named as a homage. Yeah. And it is fun to think of the orcs and all their nastiness having their own Iliad, their own their own heritage culture.

And they're like, oh, yeah, what are we going to name this? Like huge batting ram we just made. Of course we're going to call it

drawn because that's like from the epics. Right.

And they talk about the orcs watching this battle.

Yes. Yeah. So I love that. That was really cool. So now they're fighting and it's not good. Like Fingolfin does amazing, but he's finally caught.

I will say, similar to the David and Goliath thing, what I what I'm getting the sense is almost like we're just too big, right? Like his hammer and everything is just hugely large. And the way that Fingolfin has been able to slice him, he's able to slice him seven times is he's quick. He's quick. He moves around him. And so you're getting kind of like this huge ominous thing versus this light.

Courageous little little guy running around. But he finally catches him. He gets him with a shield and he bears down on him. We have Fingolfin rather. Cutting his foot in the last moment. Yeah. Which I kind of loved it almost reminded me of when I don't know if this is in the book, so I probably shouldn't say it. But like when Erdogan is doing squished before the Black Gates, and he uses his knife on the foot of that one troll. Stabs him. I was just like, yeah, get the foot.

I think about like when I'm pretty sure I could be wrong. Isn't it in the movies? Soran puts his foot on.

Oh, I'm losing my mind on a seal door. Well, he does. He puts it on the blade. He reaches down. Yes. He puts it on the blade. You're right. He steps on the blade and he yanks it and then he's starting to reach down. And then the blade is broken. Yeah. And then he slices the finger.

Yeah, that is how they stage it. I will have to. We'll have to read that. So he dies. It's squished.

Yeah, he did squished. The side Fingolfin most proud and valiant of the elven teens of old. The orcs made no boast of that duel at the date. Neither do the elves seen of it for their sorrow is too deep. I think it's interesting that both sides are silent. Nobody feels like this is a victory. And so it makes me wonder, did Morgoth even succeed in saving face? Yeah.

Right. Because you get the impression like this guy was so valiant. He was so like, I'm going to try to save my people. Yeah. That he was able to do more than people ever anticipated he could.

And I look at the orcs as not boasting. And I think, well, they would boast of anything. So if they can't boast of this, what does that mean? Maybe Morgoth was pretty badly wounded. And it does say that for ever on after that, he limps. Yeah.

He has a bit of something going on in his butt, which makes me wonder. I know they've talked about the strength of their their craft of making making things. But we've not talked about like swords with imbued power. The Nazgul have one, which is like a race, a race sword or something.

You know, staying obviously has that ability to glow when there's enemies or orcs nearby. Yes, you wonder what was Fingolfin's. Something like because it was in the light of the trees

or like it is a named sword. So it feels like it should have something

because I'm like, if you just stab someone in the foot, especially a God, right? Like a Valar. Why is this guy limping? Well, he. Oh, yeah, I guess he's a Valar.

I was like, he's just a Meyer, but no, you're right. He's been cast out. So he doesn't have the same glory around him, right? But I do wonder, like, is there something special about these items that they've crafted in Valinor? I bet they're right. Yeah, I love that. So then we get more destruction. We get various peoples.

And this is when we start hearing about Baron. This is like they sent all their women and children away and there's only them left. And it's only like 12 people and then all of them die. But then ever saw in the men that they had left for these were slain one by one until at last only 12 men remain to bear here. Baron, his son and a couple other.

Sorry, I got ahead of myself. Baron will be the last lone survivor. And that's kind of when I called it. I was like, OK, so we've got 12 dudes. Bet you Baron's the only one who's going to survive. And these are of the men, right?

The men that are in the north. Yeah, kind of. And I think this is important. Kind of still with the elves, right? The elves are there. They're they're they're limping. Yeah. Yeah.

So like we're seeing like true. People are just getting destroyed left and right. It looks like. OK, then we did this mention and I was a little surprised by this. It said, Miss Tirith was stood the orcs. And maybe I skipped another chapter here somewhere, but we have not heard about the building of Minas Tirith. I don't even know if this is an elven city or a city of man. Yeah, I'm assuming it's Elvish.

I don't really know. What is it? Yeah, it was a Minas Tirith. I'm a Larian. So this is different than the one. Oh, of course. Geography strikes and the end. And so I actually thought it was really cool. I didn't read deeper. Like I believe this was an Elvish city. Yeah, I could be wrong. I would make sense. But I think that's so I don't know. It's so cool. It's so interesting.

I kind of want to read more about it because I was like, they had a chance in Middle Earth when the human organs come after their island has been sunk to kind of rename and repopulate a land. And they picked very specific names. And I'm curious about why Minas Tirith

as opposed to something maybe even more famous to something else. You know, they did a better job. I appreciate that they didn't say new Minas Tirith. Yeah, right. Yeah. I appreciate that. Just call it a thing.

Call it its name. So we have Minas Tirith for the first time. And then we did Sauron for the first time in in like depth, I think maybe he's been mentioned before.

We've known about him. We've kind of heard about his corruption. We've only been doing naughty things.

But he is he's really a character now. And I thought this title was really interesting. Lord of Werewolves. Yeah.

Interesting. He bred his own corrupt creatures.

Yeah. So yeah. And he chose werewolves. Go for him. Maybe he just really liked. Maybe he was an animal dude.

He's like, oh, a doggy.

This next line I thought was really interesting. It says Sauron took Minas Tirith by assault.

Oh, oh, oh. Actually, OK, talking about that, is that why wargs are like such a thing for the orcs? I think so. And the movies is like there are these giant wolf creature things.

Yeah. And maybe those are descendants of the werewolves. I'm back and these are my favorite tools. Yeah. Right. Like these are my favorite little things. He's like everyone put on pause. Yeah. We're we're turning on the growth at Celebrators for the wargs.

Yeah. And then we got other stuff to do but this first. Even Grand, that battling ram is a wolf head. Yeah. And so like there's a little bit of branding and heritage that I wasn't catching. I feel like in the movies, but Sauron's like, this is my jam.

This is my spirit animal. It was my jam back in the day and it's my jam again.

He's the sort of guy who wears like that, the wolf t-shirt howling at the moon.

Yeah. Like that's his vibe. OK, cool. Cool. We have him. Yeah, I like that. So this is a different Minas Tirith. So this comment is not maybe as relevant as I thought it was. But I liked that it says Sauron took Minas Tirith by assault. Because that means when he does it in the third age, when he's at the dates, this is not the first time he's taken that city in name, at least. And I really like that. And I also note that that is a detail that Dandolph does not tell Pippin. He's like, history says this isn't going to do well for us.

OK, and then we just get a bunch of conflict. We didn't Mordoth sending out spies, capturing people and releasing them. And this was my favorite. But ever the nolder feared most the treachery of those of their own tin, typical nolder nonsense, who had been thralls in Ainbauden. For Mordoth used some of these for his evil purposes and feigning to give them liberty, send them abroad. But their wills were changed, chained to his. And then it is really sad. It says, therefore, if any of his captives escaped, they received a little welcome and wandered alone, outlawed and desperate.

Yeah, horrible. So. But this, this is the two words that make it worse for me. So they're like, OK, people go in, they're captured, and then they're released and we know that they're evil.

But then it says, if any captives escaped and it says in truth. Yes. Right. So we're not just talking about people who were released. We're talking about people who genuinely

were able to find a way out. The ones that actually got out, saved their lives and their mind. And they were cast out and they were still doubted. And they said, you can't be with us. And they wandered outlawed and desperate.

Yeah, wild, wild. This was interesting as well to men. Mordoth feigned pity and he's trying to offer them honor and glory and he wants them to rebel. But few men would give ear to him. So again, they're just like obstinate. That must be so frustrating.

And especially the three houses at the Adaine, right? The ones that were friends with the elves. They're like, no, we saw what you can do. Yeah, like they've been seeing this.

And it just must be so frustrating for him. And then we did like our first glimpse at some other groups of men who are a little bit more receptive. So we have and I thought this was funny. So there are these two bands that are divin out, Bohr and Olfayn. And so Bohr, this is funny. They followed Madros and Maddler and cheated the hope of Mordoth.

And we're faithful. I loved it. OK, so like even amongst these men who are like kind of they are enter the story as like already suspect already like potential problems. Even half of them were good, which is interesting.

So OK, I thought this was really interesting because people always talk about the Easterlings and the Lord of the Rings movies. And they're the men that come from the east to serve Sauron. And they're like, who are these men? What's their background? Why are they innately evil? Right? Or are they are their people who are fighting?

What's the history here? And now we see it goes all the way back.

There's a little bit of background here. So they they call it. He has a funny name. It's like there's someone who's called the Swarithy men that came from this other area. And they it sounds like they do have darker features. But they make me wonder if that's the the ancestors of the kind of the Easterling men in the Lord of the Rings. But it's so fascinating because you're right. It says Mordoth really was trying to get that.

Yeah, he was really excited about it. He's like, he had it had. Much encountering with the elves. Yeah, they were kind of that last you get the impression little group of men who were coming in who are coming in. And but then it says, yeah, that they weren't really that faithful to Mordoth, right? You had some people who were kind of being swayed, but then you had a whole group of people that are like that were not, you know, dude, these elves are pretty.

We're fine. Kind of almost deceived him. Like they agreed to work with him potentially.

And then they're like, actually, though. Yeah. So I enjoy this because I don't know exactly the lineage, right? Like you said, Easterlings, but it's possible. It's interesting to see maybe if they worked for for song

or more got this is more than a day when all the way back to Mordoth. You can hardly blame them for working for sorrow. It's a little bit of a lineage. You know, that would make sense. But I do think this answers the question. My mind are all Easterlings kind of in this short. And the answer would be no one I would say no. Yeah.

What else do we have here? We got more battles. Oh, this one was good. Um, so we have who is this? These are like who ran and who are and they basically get separated from their company and the Eagles rescue them and take them to the hidden city of Gondolin, which no man had yet seen.

And here's our knowledge about Gondolin.

Yeah. Coming in clutch stories. And this just makes me laugh because like, imagine you're the Eagles and you're like, all right, I'm going to save these two men. And then you're flying and you're like, where in all the whole wide world should I take them? And the only thought that comes to you is, yes, the secret city.

The secret city. There's a couple now. So it's actually fascinating. We saw this, these elves who are just so intrigued with secret cities. They're so into it. Why are you so excited about these secret cities? There's two or three of them. Yeah. There's two or three of them. And now we kind of see, oh, maybe actually kind of helpful. I mean, they are surviving in a place.

They're surviving more Gossirath. They are. Maybe he was also careful to go uphill of the volcano. Yeah. So then they are delivered to Gondolin and I liked this. I was not quite expecting this. It says that Turgan received them well.

So this is cute. They basically spend a gap year in Gondolin learning things, living there, being read in on the teens, councils, etc., like having a good time. Typical, typical, Madeleine grieve not at all they're going for he begrudge them the favor of the teen. So now they're coming out, they're leaving. Yeah.

And this is kind of a very pointed thing he says. The king's grace is greater than you know, and the law is become less stern or else no choice would be given you but to abide here to your license because this is why his father died, right? Because he refused to stay. And so he was put to death and because of other reasons. But it's very pointed, I think, for Madeleine to say that very. He's not very graceful.

Like he's not giving any grace here, obviously. Yes. And then but they're still granted the leave to go because they arrived and they were born by eagle. So they hadn't seen the path in and they leave at night so they can't see the path out. So actually, I feel like that secret is pretty well protected. Yeah.

But it's not quite enough. Even with the passage preserved, this is what happens in time. The strange fortune of Hurin and Hur reach the ears of the servants of Mordor.

So it's just like rumor, I think, is out there because you have these guys who are missing for a year. And when they come back, you know, they're decked out in finery. They look healthy.

They definitely were not strabling through the woods for a year. So we see that Mordor changes his behavior a little bit. Not to like. Yeah, he changes his behavior.

He doesn't find them yet. Yeah. But he changes his behavior. And at the same time, Turgan also learns about what's been going on. And it says he has his people build ships and set sail into the uttermost west, seeking for Valor to ask for pardon and aid of the Valar. And I'm like, dang, is he the only sensible guy around? Like, is this the first time people have done this? I like Turgan. He's like really growing on me. And it fails. They get lost. They're sunk. Just all kinds of fail.

Our fancy desk is moving. One second. Yeah, hit the up, hit the up. There she goes.

Anyways, so we've got all this stuff going on and Turgan appears to be the only one who thought, wait a minute, what if we ask the gods for a little advice? Excellent. Yeah, I'm impressed by him. A little bit less impressed by everyone else. So here we're almost at the end. What else is going on in here? We got some armies.

Oh, I liked this. So we've got elves fighting the orcs. And it says the orcs broke and fled.

And the elder had the victory. And their horse archers pursued them even into the Iron Mountains. I just love horse archers. It's one of my favorite types of army.

So I appreciate that they have them. And then we get here to the end. So all of this is destruction.

All of this is bad. And we finally call back to Baron. And it says that at this time also the outlaws, those 12 men of Dorthonian were destroyed, as is told hereafter. And Baron, son of Barahir alone, a steeping came hardly into Dorieth. So we get him coming into the Dorieth area. He's about to ruin Thingol's life. I think it's so funny how bad it goes for Thingol.

All right, so we're finishing the chapter. I've been looking for this one passage because we forgot something that becomes very important on the road. Okay, so those men that you were saying stayed with the Noldor and they were fighting with them.

Right? And they kind of sent away their wife and children and they're like, we got to fight with you. One of them was particularly valiant.

And I'm trying to remember which one, the name, but basically because of their valiance and how much they stayed and made a difference helping the Noldor, a king of the Noldor gave him a raid.

Oh yes, it was Thingol. Thingoland. Thingoland gives him the ring. You're right.

And it was because they stayed and they were valiant. They stayed and they were valiant. And he says basically this is kind of a bond that if you need us.

We will be there for you. Right? And what happens in the next chapter, which is of Baron and Luthien and that one might get its own episode because it's so long and so gorgeous, but we learned something very special about this ring. And it's going to be TBD.

Yeah, no, that was a good call. That was a good call. Completely forgot about the ring. And as soon as we did in here, I'm like, oh yeah, the ring. The ring is special. I reported. Yeah, that's it for that chapter.

Okay, amazing. Thank you so much guys for sticking with us. We hope you're enjoying it. We're getting all of the meaty little bits and we're excited to talk about Baron and Luthien next and early in episode. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Okay. Ciao.

Bye.