Hi there, I'm Stephanie.

And I'm Lydia. Come along with us as we explore and learn about the world of Tolkien through deep dives on lore, characters, beatalons, and laffalons. We are excited to have you as a new friend on this journey with us. Welcome to Speak Friend and Enter, a Lord of the Rings podcast. Hello, hello, welcome back.

Hey. Okay, Lydia, we have been waiting months and months. I dare say this is one of the reasons why we decided we wanted to read The Simerillian.

The only reason. To get to some understanding of this story. We are at chapter 19 of Baron and Luthien. Are you excited? Yeah, it's super sweet.

I started reading this and I thought this would be a normal chapter. It'll be the right length. It'll be short and sweet. And it just kept on going. But I didn't even mind. Like, I wasn't even mad. It was great.

It was so much going on. Honestly, I kind of wanted it. It was wrapping up and I was like, oh, there's only a couple pages left.

Oh, and I was like, wait, no, I want it to go longer. Tell me more about them. Tell me more about their life.

So I think it was rough. This fairy tale-esque point of view that Tolkien uses where we're in the omniscient, we're slightly removed from people. You say things like, and then 300 years passed and we move on to this thing. So you have these, yeah, it's just a slightly removed narrator. So it's hard when you get to a story where like, no, I need more. I need more detail and there's just nothing. You're like, wait a second. I have so many questions.

And then he just moves on so easily. Okay, so we've held people in suspense long enough. We should get started.

Yes, from the top. I call the first scene because I'm pretty sure I'll have the first. I, what, this is like 10 lines in. He calls it, I was really intrigued by the name that he used because I had only, the only reference to this that I knew was in like the third movie when Erdorn is singing that little tune. He calls it the lay of Luthien. But Tolkien calls it the lay of Luthien or Lathien release from bondage, which is sweet. That's a sweet little subtitle. And I don't know, it was, it just, it was intriguing to me because it made it feel like here is book one of a series and there are multiple, there are probably multiple layers of Luthien. I would hope and maybe this is just one. So it was, it was tantalizing.

Okay. The thing that got me in this little intro when he's like among tales of sorrow and ruin, there's some that brings it like he's like, He does build it up. But it's so funny because he say, he says, basically that this is a song, right? A really well known song.

And, but also here is the tale of that song told with fewer words and without song. And then I look at the chapter, guys, look at the chapter. It's like, it's like so many pages. It's so long.

And I'm just thinking, how long is the song? Yeah, it's true. It's true.

That is hilarious. I just went to a concert today and they were doing Gloria by Vivaldi, which is kind of like a traditional, I don't forget the word for these. It's in the mass, they have different types of songs, right? So if you have the retro, and then you have like all the different ones, and they all have set words.

So like the Gloria, obviously the words to it are Gloria, inner cell, Cis Deo, and then you might have a couple of other bits of Latin. And they just keep on singing it over and over and over. And it's awesome. It's amazing.

So it is impressive. The idea of a song told with more words than this chapter, this chapter, and I'm assuming that the song has some amount of repeat in the phrasing, the way these sorts of songs do. So you're like, Dane, this song must take days to sing.

You probably have people tapping in and out of the choir. Like I gotta go. I haven't slept in three days.

I'll be back. It's a full on event. You know, wild. I also think it's really funny that he's like, and without song, like, you know, we all wanted the song, but he's like, we're not going to give it to you.

I know, I know. He's like, and I guess it's second best, you get it without the tune. I just love how he loved balance. It's so funny to me.

It's gonna be cute. Oh my goodness. Okay.

Yeah. So he sets the stage with this will be sad. And I'm sort of prepared for that, but not really. I actually, I wouldn't think he'd out this will be this will be fine.

This is supposed to be a love story for my understanding. Right? Yeah.

But alas. Sorry, I'm trying to remember like what's going on here. Oh, here we go. It kind of kicks off talking about the companions of bear here.

And one of them, I think this is this is Baron father give a little back story. Yes, exactly. Yeah. This is yeah. So the backstory is that like bear here.

He's the survivor of some land that's being overrun by Sauron and creatures and they're being driven out. There's like 20 of them left. They're being hunted. There is one of them. And then it starts this chapter starts off with the story or mentioning one of the companions of bear here. Whose name is Gorlin? Yeah.

Yeah. So things are rough for Gorlin. He goes to his house, which is plundered. His wife is gone, whether Tatian or slain, he knows that then he flees to bear here, etc, etc. So he thinks his wife is dead.

And then Sauron basically comes to him and says, Hey, I have your wife. And they're trying to get somebody to betray bear here. Because they don't know where this last kind of group of men find them. They need a way to capture them and they've not succeeded.

Yeah. And they refer to them as outlaws. So you get the impression almost like Robin advice, like they're hiding in the forest and they don't know where to capture these men. Exactly. And so they've been trying to tempt to them, but all of them have been lonely. But they finally find a way to get to this guy, Gorlin. And it says, and yearning for his wife, he faltered very sad.

It's so sad. Then straight way, they brought him into the dreadful presence of Sauron and Sauron said, I hear now that that would start it with me. What is that price? And I just dropped so much foreboding for this. I was like, Oh, no, I know exactly what he's going to ask her. It's going to be the wife and the wife is already going to be dead.

And he's going to be none the wiser. And that's exactly what happens. It's so sad. It's so sad. It said it's so interesting because it said basically that, oh yeah, so he didn't know if she was gone or slain, but he said she's probably dead. But it said, but doubt not at his heart. The doubt is what gets you. And so you're like, I get it. I feel you'd want to save your loved one too, but he doesn't even know.

Totally did it. And so Gorlin asks that he should find Elin-El again and with her be set free. Well, he thought that Elin-El had been captive. Then Sauron smiled saying, that is a small price for so great a treachery, etc, etc. And then it says, and then Sauron pulls like the typical villain move in this, in this situation where he reveals, it says Sauron laughed and he mocked Gorlin and revealed to him that he had only seen a phantom designed devised by Wizardry to entrap him for Elin-El was dead.

Nonetheless, I would grant thy prayer, said Sauron, thou shalt go to Elin-El and be set free of my service. Then he put him cruelly to death like, ah, I mean, it's a trope for a reason. This is exactly what the villain would do. Every sad thing that could happen, right? When you're going with some kind of hope to save someone, and it's like, not only are they dead, but also you're going to be dead too and you betrayed your friends. You betrayed your friends. It's all bad, no good. And it's hard, but you can't see him acting any other way. Gorlin, yeah, he did something wrong, but it's not, it would be too hard not to do that. Right?

And so in this way, Bear here's hiding is revealed. She's rough. Yeah. And I think a little bit of context. So yeah, Baron is the son of Bear here, but also the reason why Bear here, you're kind of like, okay, so there's this group of men who's outlaws.

Why do they matter? Yeah. We just learned about in the previous chapter, I believe. So Bear here was one of the kind of these men that came over the mountains, met the elves, and then was whisked off to live with the Noldor.

And so they've been developing a very close relationship. And when, when Soran, excuse me, Morgoth kind of let loose his, his fire and all of his destruction. Yes, the big volcano.

It landed on a lot of the cities where the Noldor were living. And Bear here promised to the elves, he said, I'm not going to leave you defenseless, right? Like I'm going to fight with you.

And so he's a really loyal, the elves really, especially the Noldor really respect him. And that's good context. Cause now all of these guys are about to get killed. The orcs come, they find out where they're hiding, they get it, they said they draw a net around them and then they kill them all. And the only one who survives is Baron, cause he was far afield on an errand.

Yeah. It's just like very sad. He comes back, he has to bury his father and everyone else. And it says that for four years more, Baron wandered upon Dothonian, Dothonian, that's where they were, a solitary outlaw, which is rough. This is kind of interesting.

He became the friends of birds and beasts and they aided him and did not betray him. Yeah. Which is interesting.

Well, it's also interesting. So he, right after he finds his father and that whole group of men dead, he buries his father, like you said, and then he goes after the orcs that Soran sent to kill them. And he demolishes them, which I'm kind of like, Oh dang, Baron, like you, you got some skills. Yeah.

But then this is what is really interesting. So, Barah here, because he was so noble and committed to the elves, they gave him a ring with an oath, right? And they said, because he gave him that ring, right?

Yeah. I believe gave him that ring and said, because you've been so noble, like I'm going to be there for you and your kin and need of aid. And so Baron pursues the orcs. They had stolen the hand of his father with the ring on it to show it to Soran.

Yeah. And he gets the ring back. And so the reason I mentioned that is that ring becomes very significant.

Because if you notice down the line and Lord of the rings, the ring of bear here is something that Aragorn is wearing. Yeah, it's way cool. So it's when I ran across, I was like, Oh, awesome. Yeah, it's very significant. Okay. Yeah. And he wanders. Yeah.

So he's wandering around very successfully, apparently, nobody can catch him, no, we can put a hand on him. Yeah. It says at length, Mordor set a price upon his head, no less than the price upon the head of Fingern, high teen of the nolder. That's high praise.

High praise. But the orcs fled rather at the rumor of his approach than sought him out. He can't trust anybody, none of your minions. None of your minions can do the job done. So. But yeah, it says like a whole army was sent to add in some under the command of Soran.

It's just very interesting. So Baron is pressed hard by this and he's forced to flee from Dothonian. And this, this is a wild sentence. Terrible was his southward journey.

So he's going south. And it says, where the sorcery of Sauron and the power of Malion came together and horror and madness wot. Wow.

That is a fantastic description. Well, because you were always suspicious of Malion. You're always like, I am suspicious of them. So I think it's interesting where Tolkien is kind of like, yeah, she's good. But also there's some twisted magic here. Well, it's just interesting because it's cool to see that there must be unintended consequences in magic, right?

So like nothing she probably nothing she would be doing would be like nasty, right? Malicious. Yeah. Yeah. Intentionally malicious. But like the fact that she's using a lot of power and that power is there, it just it seems like it just makes it like a prime area for anything Sauron does to like have unintended side effects. Yeah, which is a which is a really cool concept.

I'm way into that. And obviously, these are where the undolient spider offspring live. This is so horrific.

That were born in the long dark before the sun hunting silently with many eyes. Horrific. Horrific. And then it continues to get this no food for elves or men was there in that haunted land, but death only.

So yeah, I don't know. He must have like eaten as much like put on as much weight as possible before the journey starts because there was nothing for him there. He is in a tough time.

Yeah, he was in a tough time. But this is so interesting. That journey is not a town to lease them on the great deeds of Baron, but he spoke of it to no one after less the horror return into his mind. Dang. You're almost getting the sense of like some post traumatic stress from this life. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I don't even know if it's post traumatic. It's traumatic.

It's just still so so fresh. But as he's traveling south, right, he's getting closer and closer out of this kind of terrible space closer to the realm of Thingol and Mellian, right? So that's kind of where that magic of hers is. And in a classic Mellian move, he goes into the woods and sees something beautiful and falls horribly in love. And falls madly in love. Who did he see? Luthien. Luthien. Yeah, she's well described here. She does sound pretty, not gonna lie.

Yeah. Let's see what it says. It said, blue was her raiment as the unclouded heaven, but her eyes are gray as the starlit evening. Her mantle was sewn with golden flowers, her hair was dark as the shadows of twilight. And as the light upon the leaves of trees, as the voice of clear waters, as the stars above the mist of the world, such was her glory and her loveliness and her face was a shining light.

So I hear, I have to do more research on this, but they say that like the Baron and Luthien tale like Tolkien considered this kind of an ode to his wife. Right? Oh, that's pretty. Like she also had dark hair and like all these components that he's kind of romanticizing here. So yeah, that's really cute.

Anyways, it's sweet. I like the Nets phrase where it says, but she vanished from his sight. And he became dumb as one that is bound under a spell.

And all of my like pill bill sirens went off. I was like, you're like, not a spell. Another love potion.

Interesting. To be fair, though, I think she was unaware of his. Yeah, I think so as well. I thought this was cute too. He called her in his heart, T'nuveel, aka Nightingale daughter of twilight, which is really nice.

Because he didn't have another name for her. Yeah. Yeah. That was cute.

Cute. And this is even before she's saying, or maybe she was singing before, but then it talks about how beautiful her song is. And then he calls out to her, et cetera.

This is great. As she looked on him, doom fell upon her and she loved him. I know how funny is that? This is love at first sight.

It's wild. So he's seeing her. She slips away from his sight. He's kind of like offstruck. And then she starts singing.

He hears her song and he like calls out to her and she turns and looks at him and she's like, oh no, right? Like something, something big is happening with this meat. Cute. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I thought it was super funny that just a couple of paragraphs before it says, Baron came stumbling into Dorieth gray and bowed as with many years of woe. So great had been the torment of the road.

And I just really hope he had a chance to clean up and freshen up. Because otherwise, she'd be like, oh my gosh. Yeah. She's like, wow, I love this hermit man with his gray beard and his stoop posture. He's seen something.

He's so manly and tortured. Which is very funny. So I really hope you had a chance for like a bath. And like maybe like trim his beard or something. But either way, they fall in love.

It's hilarious. But not only did they fall in love, there are others as well. So actually, basically, they can only meet in secret, essentially. And it says, thereafter, often she came to him and they went in secret through the woods together from spring to summer. And no others of the children of Lovatar have had joy so great though the time was brief.

So they have like their summer for like a summer together. Yeah, everything's going wonderfully. So he's just living in the woods like he said. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

It's fine. This is his whole life. He's always lived in the woods. He's probably never lived in a house. He's probably like these woods are the nicest woods I've ever been in. There's no spiders. That's true. That's true.

Yeah, I hope it was wonderful. But I just love that everyone is in love with Luthien. Get this. But Daeron, the minstrel, also loves Luthien, of course. And he aspired her meetings with Baron and betrayed them to Thingal. And this is where we get some real drama. Yeah, love this. And this is pretty spicy. And we have some background on this.

It says, a teen was filled with anger for Luthien. He loved above all things naturally. And then whereas mortal men, he did not even take into his service. Yeah, I would be appalled if I was Thingal. Like appalled. He's like, not only did you fall in love, like it would be bad enough, right? If you fell in love with an elf that wasn't from his kingdom, right? Or just like somebody you didn't approve of or whatever. Like I'm sure there's plenty of else he doesn't approve of.

We know that like if she fell in love with an older, he would not be qualified. Exactly. But yeah, a mortal man. And she's literally like she's the compilation of almost all the good things.

She's like a Maya and an elf. I know. So I did him. I did him so hard. I understand this.

Especially if Baron is still in his like, wizened, gray, red, stuptuous. I don't know what to call that. Like if it was a woman, you'd call it a crone, right? What is the version of a crone for men?

I feel like like the hermit vibe, like the wizened, wizened hermit. Yeah. So I would get this. All right. So he's filled with anger.

I thought this was interesting. So he gets Baron and he gets him summoned here to his court and Thingal looked upon Baron in scorn and anger. But Malian was silent. She's so sneaky. She's so sneaky. She's out there having her own opinions.

Just do whatever the heck she wants. Well, I think it's so funny because you can see like Thingal is like persuaded by her, but he also has his own like passions and opinions. And Malian's just here being like, I'm going to watch. Right. She has that attitude of like that. Exactly.

It's very, it comes off to me as very capulating, which I mean, I like. Get it. Yeah. Oh, actually, before this, I should say Thingal sent his servants to go get Baron to lay hands on him, but Luthien forstalled him and led Baron herself in, which is good.

This is the way to do it. Like when you have a big confession to make to your parents, she's like, if you're going to meet him, I'm going to be there with him. And she says she gives him a great intro, right?

She does. Because Baron was kind of filled with dread at the majesty and splendor of everything. And she says he is Barons and a bear here, a Lord of men, mighty foe of Morgoth, the tale of whose deeds is become a song even among the elves.

Right. So she's kind of saying like, this is a great guy, dad. And then I just love it. Thingal doesn't even respond.

He says, let Baron speak. Yeah, you just not care at all. Get out of here with your introductions. Let's hear this man.

Yeah. Oh, and he says, he literally says to Baron, what would you hear unhappy mortal? And for what cause have you left your own land to enter this, which is forbidden to you, right?

Because he said, I don't want men in my land. And, and Baron shocked, right? He's like looking at the eyes of Luthien. He glances up into the face of face of Mellian, the mama, who I'm sure she's got to be like intimidating to look at.

Well, I actually think it's hilarious the way this is described. It says, and then he looked at Mellian and it seemed to him that words were put in his mouth, fear left him. So all I can think is that Mellian a winked at him. Oh, you know, like maybe she did for like an encouraging nod or something, something very sly, something she would do. Or how crazy would it be if she put the words in his head of like, you can do this.

She could do that. So I really feel like Mellian is really hard for him. I feel that Baron, when he does speak is incredibly bold, I feel. He basically says, I didn't seep this out on purpose, Luthien. But now that I found her, he says, neither rock nor steel nor the fires of Mordoth nor all the powers of the elf kingdoms. That's a lot. Shall keep me from the treasure that I desire for Luthien, your daughter is the ferris of all the children of the world. Yeah.

Then silence fell upon the hall for those that stood there were astounded and afraid and they thought that Baron would be slain. Nice. And of course, Thindal then says, death you have earned with these words. So yeah, they're not wrong. They're not wrong. Yeah. Amazing. So things are not going great.

And these continue to go ungreat. And then eventually Thindal says to him, like they go back and forth for a bit. And then Thindal says to him, bring to me in your hand a Silmaril from Mordoth's crown.

And then if she will, Luthien, we set her hand in yours. Yeah, because Baron basically is like, what would you have me do? Yeah, exactly.

To earn your respect to be with her. And this is this is like biblical stuff. This is, this is, I don't know, this is a Jacob trials of Jacob, the seven years of Jacob is that who it is. It's like the trials of Hercules. This is intense. So intense.

Yeah. And I love Baron's reaction. He's so rude about it. He laughs.

And then he says, for little price, do Elvin Keane's sell their daughters for gents and things made by craft? That is, then I don't know if I was single, I would probably just kill him right then. I was going to say, I think the conversation is going poorly.

Because it's one thing. So he basically said, you, he basically said, I love your daughter. I'm going to be with her because she's more precious to me than anything. And he's like, okay, you can't be with my daughter death. And then he's like, okay, well, what can I, like, I, what can I do to prove to you that I can be with your daughter? And he's like, well, maybe this and then he's like, really just that, just a simeral. But it's just like, so insulting the way he said it. It's like, oh, you care more about gems than your daughter.

Like, yeah. He's not trying to tell off on the best for that, for sure. But I thought it was really interesting. The paragraph before that says, when Thingel spoke this, it says he wrought the doom of Doriath and it wasn't snared within the curse of Mando's because he has been holding himself apart from the Noldor. He's not been involving himself in this Silmaril nonsense. He's been rejecting every attempt I think that they've made to drag him into it. And now he's dragged himself into it. And I thought that was kind of interesting.

Like, you know, I did not expect that to be the price that Thingel set. No, has he been secretly like lusty enough to the Silmaril? Like obviously they're lust worthy. Is that something that's been weighing on him?

Or is it, or is he just thinking to himself, this is an impossible task. The Noldor haven't managed to do it in 500 years. F the Noldor and F this guy. I'll set something he could never do. I feel like it's probably more that than him secretly wanting a Silmaril. But like, even without wanting the Silmaril, he's been kind of ensnared and like has tied his household to them now.

It's really interesting. I think he did it in like kind of a sassy move. But then his wife, right?

Because I was like, why would she let him do this? Because this is literally like, I thought it was so fascinating because it basically said the curse of the Noldor isn't just on the Noldor, right? Like if you decide that you are also going to pursue these things, you are going to have that curse upon you. And so Mellian says, okay, you have devised a cunning council, which I think kind of speaks to what we were saying. Like he was just trying to be somewhat frustrating.

I think he was just trying to stump Baron, which is fair. Nobody has done anything to forward this cause in 500 years. So. But she says, but if my eyes have not lost their sight, like if I'm basically, if you can take my senses for anything, like it's ill for you, whether Baron fail and his errand or achieve it, for you have doomed either your daughter or yourself. And now is Dorieth drawn within the fate of a mightier realm, right? So she's saying, whatever way it goes, something's not going to go great for you with this.

Yeah. But Dingle kind of rejects her council, right? Cause he says he's not, he's not going to do it.

He'll never be able to do it. And it's sad. Uh, Luthien also holds her council. Man, can you imagine being her? That must be the most awkward meeting in the world.

Um, and from that hour, she's saying not a did in Dorieth. Ouch. Yeah. And so basically they have this meeting.

So it sounds like timeline. Baron is wandering. He's trying to get out of this really sucky forest situation. He comes into Dorieth, right? And he meets Luthien. They have this cute meet. And basically they spend the summer together while he's living in the forest. Minstrel dude realizes this reports him to dad. They have this meeting and then Baron's like, okay, I got to go. And it says that Baron passed through Dorieth unhindered, right? So he's leaving.

Yeah. He's leaving Dorieth now to go pursue this going on this quest, going on this quest. And Luthien is heartbroken. Oh yeah.

Cause I mean, I look at her and I think there's no way she thinks she's that he's going to survive this. Yeah. Right.

How can you? Yeah. Um, so he's going through various lands. Um, see, I don't know exactly where this, cause my geography is weak, but it says the plane. There's so many geographies. I know.

So there's a section he's going through where the L's of Nardisrand are keeping watch. This is fun. Yeah. So Baron knows that he's in danger. And knowing his danger, he held Everiloft, the renafelodon. Yeah. Um, and pride often allowed. I am Baron son of bear here.

Friend of Felodon take me to the team. Therefore the hunter slew him not. Uh, so that, that was, that's just a cool thing. Another, another instance of this ring being awesome. Um, cause he, so this, these must be the Noldor. He's traveled north now. Yes.

I think so. Back in the realm of the Noldor. So these elves come to him and they talk to him and seeing the ring, they bow before him, get this though he was an evil plight, wild and way worn. I just again has this in my mind. He's just always constantly shaved.

Bear everywhere, beard everywhere, dirty and grimy. And maybe Luthien caught him all like literally the one day he's bathed in his life. So that's how I feel about Baron right now. So he gets in and he is taken to teen Finrod Feligand. Yeah.

Just cool. And Feligin knew him. Feligin knew him. He didn't need a ring to remind him.

How cool. I mean, he must be so weird. He gave the ring to his dad. So he must have been a kid. Yeah. But he must look like his father, right? Yeah. Or the elves just have like incredible memories.

Yeah. And it's so interesting because I actually love this phrase. So he's like, he didn't need a ring to remind him who he was. He's like, I know you. I know your dad.

I gave you that ring, right? And then he says behind closed doors, they sat. You almost get the impression of an intimate meeting, right? Like you're not in a courtyard or a throne room where speaking your plight to the king, he's saying, I know you.

Come sit with me, right? Like he's having a meeting with him. And it says, and Baron told of the death of Barah here and all the things that have had fallen him. And he wept.

Yeah. And he recalled Luthien and he recalled their joy together. And he's like bearing his soul to this guy. Well, I also think it's interesting the advice that Feligin gives him. He basically says, keep quiet.

Don't tell anyone what your quest is. And he says this because of the curse that's on the Silmarils and how. So I think he says that Celerdorm and Cúrfan, I think these are sons of Feanor, or at least cousins, somebody. They are currently nephews, maybe. Yeah, maybe nephews. They're currently dwelling with him.

And if they heard that Baron was after one of the Silmarils, it would like would not go well for him. Yeah. And I will see those guys are dead later.

And so yeah, it's so interesting. His first reaction is, Oh, you got to keep real quiet. Yeah, don't tell anybody. Because it says it is he says after he hears Baron's story, he says it is plain that Thingol desires your death.

Right? Like he's not saying like, Oh, like maybe he just is really interested and you prove it. He's like, No, Thingol wants you dead. And he's like, But beyond this, right, like you're going to struggle because there's this curse. And it's an oath of hatred, right? And so he knows, even though it's him and his family that's caught up in this, you get the impression he's like, I know this, this, this curse, this thing that we promised is terrible.

Right? Like it's not something that's glory filled. It's not something that's going to bring us joy. It's something that's going to cause us pain. But I don't get the impression and that's when he says beware basically of other people in my court who are going to be very defensive over the Simerals. Right.

And then it gets out anyways. That yeah, this is Baron's quest and they are exactly like you said. Yeah, this is really interesting. I don't know exactly the contents here.

I'm trying to like stem this. So there's some kind of meeting, celadorm is speaking. And he late, he's not great rhetoric apparently it says so great a fear. Did he set in the hearts? I think this is the elves of Nardrathron that never after until the time of Turin would any elf of that realm go into open battle. But with stealth and ambush with wizardry and venom dart, they pursued all strangers for getting the bonds of kinship. So I assume they attacked other elves. Thus they fell from the valor and freedom of the elves of old and their land was darkened.

I don't know what's going on those guys. That's a little interesting. I went on where is that is that after King fellow gun speaks to his people or yes just below. Okay, okay. Because yeah, so to kind of prelude. So basically it gets out why Baron's there. Right. Like I'm sure things things from Thingol's court must have. Yep. You know, flown and so they're like parents here. Why is he here? Right. Like, and so it gets out. And so all the people right these are the Noldor these are like the Simerals are our purpose for being here basically.

They're all kind of disturbed. And so King fellow gun. Sorry, I just realized that fellow gunned is teen of Nardrathron. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so these are his people. These are his people. Yeah, so there's been like this like inciting and okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, inside his people. And so now he realizes it right he says this has been spreading so he goes up and he speaks and he talks about bear here, Baron's dad. And he reminds them of the vow he made to Baron's dad to be there for their kin. And basically Seladorm gets up and says, no way.

He argues the opposite case. Probably that's all kill Baron. Exactly. So he says basically I promised to bear here that I'd be with him.

Baron has this oath that he's given to Thingol. I'm going to help him. And then his two I think I'm going to call them nephews.

Kelli Kelli Gorm and Curfin are the two nephews that are like, heck no, the cemeral's are ours. Right? Like if anyone lays or tries to lay their hands on them, they're supposed to be dead. And in the course of that speech, they incite the people of Nardrathron to this kind of like, I don't know, like, suspicion that all for ourselves and others. Yeah. And also get this, these, this Seladorm and Curfin, these guys are bad dudes. And it says, dark thoughts arose in their hearts, thinking to send forth Felagund alone to his death and to usurp the throne of Nardrathron. So like this whole act of Baron coming here has really set this place into turmoil. Felagund is in danger.

He's about to be deposed potentially by these guys. Yeah. And so this is what I think is like, this is where I'm like, wow, Felagund is really admirable in my mind, because he sees all this happening, right? He sees his people are are kind of siding with this one way.

They're split, they're angry. And he says, basically, he takes his crown off. And he says, your oaths of faith to me, you may break, but I must hold my bond. And so he takes his crown off. And he says, listen, if you don't want to follow me, and how I've committed to bear here, Baron's dad, you don't have to. I will step down.

And he abdicates. Yeah. Wow. Right. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. He gives up kingship to be able to follow through.

So they give the crown to his brother as a steward and did this, these reprobates, Seladorm and Croufen said nothing, but they smiled and went from the halls. They're the worst. Oh my gosh.

They're slimy dudes. So yeah, this is a big drama. And now we have Felagund and Baron setting out and they have 10 companions. Yeah.

Only we're only able to gather a small group of people who were like, I'll support you. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Let's see. I'm just looking for the nuts a little bit. Okay. Yeah. So we have here that this is when the tail gets really good, because this is when they go and counter Sauron. Yeah. So we've got Felagund V Sauron in quote, Sons of Power.

So cool. And it says the power of the king was very great, but Sauron had the mastery. And then it is as an excerpt from the lay of Luthien.

And I will say this lay of Luthien must be so long because there are no repeating phrases. It's yeah, it's wild. So basically Felagund has like it said, a lot of power and he puts a spell on them to change their forms and faces so that they're able to get through very, very close to Sauron's layer, right? Because they're trying to get closer and closer and closer. But Sauron apparently also has this incredible power. And through this song, kind of talking about these two powers clashing, you get the impression Sauron strips them.

Yeah. So we have like this in song form, we had clearly a magic battle, which is sweet. So yeah, now they're revealed and well, they are revealed to not be who they were disguised as, but it says Sauron could not discover their names or their purposes, which is interesting that they step before him naked and afraid. And I was like, Oh, I would also be very afraid. Sauron cast them therefore into a deep pit, dark and silent and threatened to slay them cruelly, unless one would betray the truth to him.

From time to time, they saw two eyes kindled in the dark and a werewolf devoured one of the companions, but none betrayed their Lord. Dang, that is legit so horrible. Yeah. Yeah.

Because this is so we're going back to Sauron is supposedly the master of werewolves. Yeah. Right. That's kind of his, his thing, I guess, more gosted dragons and surrounded werewolves. Yeah, this is making me wild. So at the same time, it says that Luthien, like her heart is heavy, she realizes something is wrong. She goes to Malian and she says, Mommy, what's going on with my Baron? My beloved.

Yeah. And Malian tells her, like, you know, he's captive, exactly what you thought was going to happen has happened. And Luthien wants to go save him. And her plan is to assess to fly, resolve to fly from Dorieth and come herself to him. I guess she just means to escape. But she sought the aid of Daeryn, which is that nasty minstrel that we saw before.

Dang minstrel. He's so slimy and he betrayed her purpose to the team. So yeah, it's wild. Now the team, this is so funny to me, the team goes full Rapunzel and builds a wooden house to keep her locked away in a tree.

It's a tree house. Yeah. I also, okay. So I think it's super Rapunzel because so go ahead.

We'll get to the Rapunzel part. No, I love it. I love it. And I just think it's so interesting. I don't know, we'll get to this further along, but I think it's so fascinating. So it's kind of like all of this stuff is happening to Baron. He's starting out and then he gets captured, right? And then it's like that, that swoosh in a movie. It's like in the meantime, and it goes over to Luthien. And I think it's so fascinating that it said basically, when Soran cast Baron into a pit, a weight of horror came on Luthien's heart.

Like, what does that even mean? But she knows, she knows something's up. And so I'm just like, man, what an incredible foresight or feeling.

But she's driven by this. And so yeah, I don't know how many elves have premonition, but I was suspect it would be more than, well, it's more than zero. Because we know Elrond has some kind of gift of prophecy, right? Arwen also has some fragment of it. And then we have Luthien being the daughter of Fingal, a keenly elf and Malian, literally a Maya.

Like she's got to have, she's got something. Okay, maybe this is a good time to mention this. The elves of old, like these Cimmerillian elves, they were bomb, like freaking, they're doing magic all day. Celigons can like hide his hide his form from Soran. Like, and they're going to a magic battle.

That's so cool. And I do think like this has to do more with them being like, Valar elves, you know what I mean? And you kind of get that light of Valar fading through generations.

So it seems like power is not quite up to gear, you know, like when she read about these elves. The elves of war and the reams are reduced to using natural weapons. They're so reduced. They're so reduced.

And so, could you believe they're not killing their enemies with song? And so I'm just like, these, these elves are bomb. And Luthien, I mean, this is just the beginning of her amazingness.

But yeah, she's a little bit powered up because she has a Maya mom. But I'm just like, there's a lot of skill going on here. Like there's magic in the air. And there's a lot of it. It's very, I feel like it's very fairy tale-esque.

It's awesome. It says she puts forth, she's in this tower. She's locked away in a house.

Yep. She puts forth her arts of enchantment and caused her hair to grow to great length. You don't say Rapunzel. And of it, but she does something else. Of it, she wove a dark robe that wrapped her beauty like a shadow. And it was laden with a spell of sleep. The strands that remained, she twined a robe and she let it down from her window. So we still get Rapunzel, but we did this cool like robe effect that no prince is coming to get her exactly using her hair and herself to get out. It's way cool. So she gets out of Doriath and I'm like, dang, that is going to upset theme goal so much.

Yeah. And then she weaves a hair, a hair, hair wings and she like flies from the treehouse. Anyways, anyways, it's wild. So now of all the two people for her to come across, who does she come across?

Yeah. So she's traveling north and who do you think she runs into? Fritian, Celerdorm and Turithin. The slimy brothers. Yes.

The ultimate slime bros. And they mentioned now, we might as well mention this now. I think it's Celerdorm has a dog. Is it fair to call him a dog? I think we should call him a hound. Okay.

I was like, that doesn't seem quite right. She's more epic than a dog. Yes. So his name is Juan or Huon. I don't know how you would say that. Juan. Juan. So Huon is cool.

We'll get more on him later. But Luthien sees these guys, probably recognizes them and reveals herself. And of course, instantly Celerdorm became enamored of her. And it doesn't say so, but I'm pretty sure Turithin was also enamored of her. Because how could you not be? How could only one of them fall in love? Maybe Turithin was already married.

He's like, oh, she's not my type. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine Luthien reveals herself to you at the first scene you think, nope, wouldn't.

Of course not. Anyways, so Celerdorm is talking pretty. He's saying things like, of course I'll help you.

Absolutely. She's like, I'm trying to go north and help me. Well, he said, I'll help you if she returned with him now to Nardrathrond. By no sign did he reveal that he knew already a Baron and the quest of which she told, nor that it was a matter which touched him near.

He is such a filthy liar. So yeah. Because basically, if he were to run across her in any other circumstances where he didn't really know her quest, I don't know if I would trust him to be very gentlemanly in the first place. Absolutely. But he does know her quest.

Yeah. And he's not into it. He doesn't want Baron saved. He doesn't want his uncle.

Oh, I forget his name all the time, fellow gun coming back. So he's not interested. And you absolutely can't trust him. Literally a sentence later, they returned to Nardrathrond and Luthien was betrayed. Duh. Where they held her fast and took away her cloak and she was not permitted to pass the dates or speak to anyone save the brothers. So that's great. Now she's personal again. And they're cool with it because they're fine with their uncle and Baron never coming back.

Oh, absolutely. How does she get out? Is it who wants?

Yeah, this is the sweet part. So, okay, Corofan, I think, no, Seligorm. Seligorm has this hound. And I'm like, who gave him this hound? Was it his dad? It's a Valar hound.

He does not deserve him. It's a Valar hound. And this hound guys, like, I feel like this hound could overthrow Moragoth on his own. It's really, he's really good. And he's kind. He's a kind animal. And I think this is so interesting.

And it says at night he lay before her door. Yeah. Yeah.

So nice. So the hound was out when Luthien met them. And the hound could kind of sense that there was like some betrayal going on and that Luthien was a good person. Right?

Yeah. And so he feels badly for her. He likes her.

So he will, he will stay by her chamber. And what's interesting is this animal component of Tolkien, we're not all animals, you get the impression, are sentient. But there's a lot of them that have like human sentient quality. Human level intelligence. Yeah.

But they're just lacking words, which was really interesting because it says that Hewan, he says he comprehended all the speech, but it was permitted to him thrice only air his death to speak with words. So that's kind of cool. Yes. Like he has to choose his timing. Um, yeah, he has, he only gets a few words in his life. It's interesting.

Yeah. So he can speak basically seems like a gift in the Valar, but it's very few times in his life. And it says, Hewan devised a plan for the aid of Luthien. Love that. Brought her her cloak.

And for the first time he spoke, giving her counsel, probably, this is the first time in his life. Yeah. Yeah. So then he led her by secret ways out of Nargrithrand. And they fled north together. This was great to me. And he humbled his pride and suffered her to ride upon him in the fashion of the city, even as the orchard stood at times upon great wolves.

Thus they made great speed for who on was swift and tireless. Love that. So good. So good. Animals to the rescue again. Yeah. I don't know how Saladorm got that hound. But yeah, he just, hmm, he is not.

I feel like it must have been like his dad, like a gift. I don't know. Yeah. All right. So now we're going to swoosh cut back to the evil werewolf pit. Yeah.

Where Baron and Felagund. Yeah. And did this.

It says, Baron and Felagund lay and all of their companions were now dead. So there's just two left. Yeah.

This is a rough time to be cutting back. And so the wolf is coming now for Baron. And it says this, Felagund put forth all his power and burst his bonds. And he wrestled with the werewolf and slew it with his hands and teeth and teeth.

Incredible. Of course, he is wounded to death doing this. But this is how he keeps his oath. Oh, this is interesting.

I had left his note. I'd forgotten about this. So Felagund died then in the dark and Tolandar Hoth, whose great tower he himself had built.

So Sauron took it over. Is that right? I forgot about that. Yeah.

No, I think that's true, which I had also forgotten about, but obviously that sentence makes it sound like, and I think this goes back to the oath. It's like everything that they build. Yeah. They think is going to be theirs and it's going to be like this beautiful thing. And it's going to be turned, it's going to be turned sour. Right. So Baron is mourning him.

He's probably about to get eaten as soon as the nets were old. It's hungry And then it says in that hour Luthien came Standing upon the bridge that led to Sauron's Isle She's saying a song that no walls of stone could hinder and I'm very glad so cool girl you can girl you can do what? I know you just like the trumpets of your coat like why didn't she use this early? Okay, but did this get Sauron's reaction. Oh my goodness Sauron stood in the high tower wrapped in his black thought a fantastic phrase But he smiled hearing her voice for he knew that it was a daughter of Malian The fame of the beauty of Luthien and the wonder for son had long gone forth from Doriath And he thought to make her captive and hand her over to the power of Mordoth for his reward would be great Uh, there's only terrible awful noted things for her Also, can we just say I think it's funny because Sauron's Amaya Millions of Maya. Yeah, and I bet they had a history in Valor Valinor Yeah, so I feel like he's like oh You know, it's like one of those creepy dudes at a family party or something that comes to you And it's like I knew your mom back in the day And you're just like oh, that's so you don't have to talk to me Yeah Sauron sends a wolf down and it says who on slew it silently and he's just doing this over and over Then he's sending Sauron is sending a drought ruin and now I'm like seeing him kind of like at the edge of his tower Hunched over staring down at the bridge. He's like surely this time it will work And it didn't work Yeah, which I was I was shocked by this so who wants this hound he's a hound of Valinor Uh-huh, and he's beating all of these holes that they bred and whatever this Yeah, this dread beast yeah an old evil lord and sire of werewolves and Ingbath So you're getting one of the old ones like one of the OG's right and and then who on Amazing dog that he is hound He slays him too Or at least once enough to force him to flee yeah exactly Oh, he does that you're right and then it says he tells Sauron who on is there?

So now Sauron's like alright my minions have failed me if you want to get anything done you have to do it yourself I'm getting that sense. Yeah, so he takes upon himself the form of a werewolf. I was like that's so interesting Maybe he's just like really enamored with werewolves, which I think he probably is like maybe this is a comfortable Yeah, this must be a comfortable form for him and it's interesting to think of these Maya like they're not really Probably bound to forms the way humans are right It doesn't seem like it.

So maybe Yeah, maybe this is I don't know. I would just in my mind I think the Sauron is more human than that so I would expect him to go down put on his armor bring his big mace or whatever You know yeah, whatever one does but it's it's interesting that he does it this way And it says he came forth to win the passage of the bridge. This is so intense There's so much going on Yeah Mmm, man Luthien is great So great was the horror of his approach that who on leptisites we has a moment where he stared and Luthien swooped in and Cast a fold of her cloak before his eyes and Sauron stumbled for fleeting drowsiness tame upon him It's really good at like sleep Like she has this very lullaby power component almost Super cool and then it says that who on left back into battle and now they're fighting um And I actually think it's really interesting. So who on kind of was like whoa When sauron came down I thought that was funny and then Luthien's like I got this and she she cast a spell on him and who on uses that moment To spring on him and surprise him Yeah, I mean his entrance really must have been something because even Luthien like almost swooned a little bit and not in a good way Um Swooned a little bit in fear romantic. Yeah, that'd be something The sauron Luthien fanfiction um But yeah, so like but she overcomes the panic and the fear and she does this cool trick with the cloak And it's the same theme for who on he also overcomes that like that first panic um, and he He basically pins it seems like he pins sauron down sauron down by the throat Yeah, and he says that he must yield the tower Yeah, and what's fascinating.

Okay. This I think really needs to go on to we've had previous discussions about sauron But it says then sauron shifted shape from wolf to serpent and from monster to his own A custom form but he could not elude the grip of one and also it says It's so interesting He could not do it without forsaking his body entirely air his foul spirit left its dark house And then luthien threatens to strip him of his raiment of flesh and send him back to morgoth and naked his ghost wild His ghost back to morgoth and so this is something that I'm thinking because now I'm talking about maya. Can she do that? I hope she can that's amazing.

I'm incredible. But yeah, so this is the thing with maya We know that sauron shape shifted that's like a very particular thing to him And I don't know if it's because he was a deceiver and so it was important to him that he could shape shift and other Maya just don't care I don't know if it was a particular skill of his and so he's like I've honed this talent Or was this something that morgoth particularly said I can give you this This this ability right like a special gift almost bestowed upon him because yeah, I don't know to send your ghost quaking back to him It's so rude. She is wild That would be so embarrassing for sauron. He would definitely be demoted Yeah, 100 so Sauron yields and he does it all up to luthien.

So luthien has mastery of the isle and all that was there, which is sick Um, and so she immediately throws open the tower throws it down and sauron fleas Yeah, and sauron fleas and many thralls and tapas came forth and wonder and dismay did this Shielding their eyes against the pale moonlight for they had laid in lawn in the darkness of sauron, but baron came not Um, and that's because he was mourning for feligund Yeah, and so he was in the deep dark Huddled over his friend and so luthien finally finds him. Yeah, right? So they are reunited Um And together I thought through the woods renewing for a time their joy So we're getting some we did another nice we did a reprieve Which is important. It's sweet. It says um But baron coming back to the light out of the pits of despair It lifted her up and they looked again upon one another and the day rising over the dark hills Shown upon them. So you get the sense that baron and her They're living another day. They're coming out into the light. Yeah Yeah, so now news is getting out that feligund has died Um, let's see what they say. Did you do?

Oh, this is funny. Um, so now there's told it says there's two mold in nagerthron Uh, they lamented bitterly the fall of feligund their team saying that a maiden had dared that which the sons of feinor had not dared to do Absolutely, but many perceived that it was treachery rather than fear that had guided cellar dormant curfew Here their king has died and that someone was noble and brave and went in and saved them and they're like Uh, that could have been us, right? Like we could have saved them and we didn't some random girl Not random. She's really powerful. Yeah, but like Can you believe this ultra powerful girl did it?

I don't see I love it because I'm like, yeah You guys are cowards like you had a freaking hound this hound is amazing He was he was yours and then feligund had awesome skills He was able to like hide himself and do all this deception And like kill a wolf with his hands and teeth like you guys have power and you know Pardon me wonders with this curse. Is it like you're so Caught up in your own happiness that you think that you're like, oh, we can't get the simurals They're they're they're torn from us like it's going to be our life searching for them But really it's your mentality and your cowardice that keeps you from it. I wonder You're just I don't know Yeah, that's interesting Uh, so now baron and luthien are trying to get back to dorjath. They did there just about and in that moment baron is seeming to himself His like intention to fulfill the quest is kind of renewed and luthien is pleading with him Uh, no, don't do it and if you do I just got you out of exactly. I know Yeah, then if I was with you, I'd also be mad.

I'd be like forget dad Forget that dumb oaf We don't have to live in dorjath. Yeah. Yeah, and then she says on either road I shall go with you and our doom shall be alike Which is true. That's such a good quote Because basically he's saying like do I go back right like I told your dad I would do this I would I would give him this and that would prove my love for you Or you know, do I do I give up and I think she's actually really I mean kudos to her She basically says listen You can give up Or you can go back But either way you're not getting rid of me right like whatever your doom is is going to be my doom Yeah, in the middle of this very romantic moment. Guess who shows up the two stooges No, the slimy brothers. Yeah, so they write up And it says kelled warm Um, basically they charge and they try to kill baron Um, pretty rude and so at some point this is really funny to me. Um, so at some point it says then baron throttle curfin So we've got baron literally choking this man.

He leaped he leaped and grabbed him, right? Yes But death was near him for cellar dorm wrote upon him with a spear So he's about to get stabbed because he's distracted thrall in the other brother in that hour Who on foresook the service of cellar dorm and sprain upon him finally um Yeah, so this is literally like the hound because the hound's been gone. I'm sure he's been like, okay I'm just going to take this little detour because I feel bad for this girl And then I'll be back and I'll do my next normal thing if cellar dorm knew what huan had done I don't know.

I don't know if at this point he would know you have to be like, where's my ultra powerful dog? Also the girl was missing. So strange that I can find neither of them. So yeah, I would hope you would put two and two together Maybe maybe he just saw his hound was on vacation or something.

I don't know. It's interesting um I think this is really funny. So basically baron wins and he takes even their horse He takes kerf and horse and says your horse I keep for the service of luthien and it may be accounted happy to be free of such a master Yeah, basically he He wipes up with them and then says I think he puts two brothers on one horse and he says get out of here because he and the hound It's not just him. It's the hound too. Yeah, and so he puts two of them on one horse and says get out of here And I'm keeping this horse. Yeah They have like a little spat essentially and then Yeah, this is interesting basically baron resolves um To do the thing he resolves to do the quest and the way they phrase it is awful Uh, I guess the way to talk and face it is awful. He says for he believed that he must now say farewell to both love and light um, dame And then we have a nice little bit of prose for from the song Actually, I will say I think something that's important or interesting here is shows how slimy the brothers are So the brothers come and they one of them grabs luthien, right and puts her on his horse And that's what baron gets like super angry about and so then he grabs the other brother starts throttling him The the brother with luthien. I think is the one who who's trying to throw the spear and then who in gets involved but basically luthien stays on the horse the second brother gets pulled off But then as they're fleeing one of the brothers Takes an hero and tries to shoot luthien Not baron tries to shoot luthien Right. Yeah, I forgot about that which i'm like the girl that you were gonna victimize and steal these guys are crazy They're not even shooting baron.

What do you need to work for when you have enemies like these? Yes, and so just yeah creepy creepy dudes and so baron springs in front in front of the first arrow saves luthien Yeah, that's a good call. I skimmed over that baron Heron does the second one or vice versa. And so they're able to they're able to So who on caught one in his mouth and baron caught the other in his chest Baron went and caught it in his chest. And so then luthien is using her magic to heal his wound And so they have again like kind of another moment of reprieve. It seems like you know, there's a little bit of time with recovery Um, and they return to doryoth and now baron knows that luthien is safe And now he's kind of like this is where he he feels like he has to fulfill his oath And it says he committed her to the care of who on and then with great aim Which he departed while she yet slept upon the dress And again, this is very ergon and arwin with him trying to break up sneakily when he left with the fellowship Well, and I think this is the thing is I feel like they put that after this scene because baron I don't know.

I think he's getting the impression. He's like luthien will never be safe as long as she's with me Yeah, right. And so he just had this run in with these two terrible dudes He's She is the one who had to come save him Right, like he was dying.

She didn't have to come And he was in this terrible situation. And so I think he's thinking I'm going to leave her behind. She will be safe And I can go and do this thing that I've committed myself to Which is not what she wants, right? She says that I want to be with you whether you're doing this or not And that's what actually happens. So He does he tries to leave her she catches up to him And for a time he is glad which of course you would be But then You know, obviously he doesn't want her to come with him.

Yes. He's off to do something That's like basically impossible and he strove once more to dissuade luthien from her journey, right? And this was interesting because it says now for the second time who on spoke and he counseled baron From the shadow of death you can no longer save luthien for by her love. She is now subject to it Um Yeah, that's interesting like look death is going to happen for her She's either going to be mortal because she loves you or mortal because she dies with you Like you can't save her from it. Yeah, like you're going to die and break her heart or she's going to die Yeah, and so it says okay, and he sought no longer to dissuade her Um, and then luthien does something totally sick so By the counsel of huan and the arts of luthien baron was arrayed now in the hame of drowdlin that bid werewolf And she in the weaned fell of thuringwethil. I don't know who thuringwethil is some kind of vampire bat looking thing Yeah, it's like a bat creature.

I think yeah, so basically they luthien does this shape shifting on both of them and now they have perfect where evil disguises to dosn't need into Evil land. It's awesome. I will say it's really cool. And this is something very similar to what um Fella gunned was able to do I will say though quick no on I think differentiation I feel like soran is able to shape shift. I feel like they are putting a They're putting a disguise on So it is interesting the way it's described because It's described like you said like a mask is not their true form But then it says seems like she flew and he leapt So it does seem like they still sort of inhabit the body Yeah I don't know what the distinction is. I'm sure there is one and I I think probably whatever soran is doing is not the way to do it Doesn't seem like quite the same thing. It does seem slightly different.

Yeah. Yeah, interesting Um, so now we are coming to mordoth Yeah, which is sweet Don't don't Um, what am I looking at here? Oh, yeah Okay, this is super fun So, uh, yeah, they're they're traveling. It kind of cuts over to mordoth.

Um, so this is fun mordoth Is out there doing something this is interesting. It says he chose from one I don't I don't know exactly what this is referring to. Sorry. Let me go a little before it says then mordoth recall the doom of huan Oh, this is because they heard the bane of the hound.

Okay. Yeah, I gotcha That makes more sense. So then mordoth recall the doom of huan So there's some kind of prophecy about huan and he chose one from among the welps of the race of drowdland These bid werewolves and he fed him with his own hand upon living flesh gross and put his power upon him Swiftly the wolf grew Until he could creep into no den but lay huge and hungry before the feet of mordoth. That is such a fun Fun phrase and it's so interesting. So basically mordoth has heard about what happened to soran right like with that And so this is a little bit of preparation. Yeah, he's preparing this like defense against huan and get this These are the names Um carcraw the red ma is one of his names and and fowler the jaws of thirst These are sick names. I would love to use carcraw for something. They're very good Maybe if I ever got a dog Carcraw that'd be so good It'd be like some tiny tiny little cute thing the red ma and then you're just like constantly hungry Oh, yeah Yeah, I will say so so once he hears about huan and that he had a taxor on and everything that happened huan has a prophecy about him. He's uh, he's a valinor hound and so Supposedly this hound will only be brought down when it faces the greatest of wolves, right? And so we knew that prior to its previous battle with soran and so when soran came out I thought oh no Who wants gonna die because who can be a greater wolf than soran?

But basically we're seeing a little bit of pre pre um information here Think to himself. I gotta make the greatest hound the greatest wolf ever And so what he does is he feeds it on valar blood. He feeds it on himself Oh, that's the living flesh That's the living flesh. So he feeds the dog pieces of him that was not the impression I got that's cool That's wild stuff.

So get this he goes to all those lengths, right? This is what happens. I love luthien luthien is sick so They encounter karkaroth He stands up and denies them entry and it says this luthien casting back her foul raiment stood forth Small before the might of karkaroth, but radiant and terrible Lifting up her hand. She commanded him to sleep saying Oh woe be dotten spirit fall now into dark oblivion and forget for a while the dreadful doom of life And karkaroth was felt as though lightning had smitten him whoo She she just do everything crazy Like lullaby sleep magic like she she has this way of in Source-like people, but it's a very consistent. It's very cool Remind me did karkaroth just die just then or is he just asleep? He's he's like an akoma.

He's okay I love her so much. So now they're in the building Uh and it says in that sentence and together rot so baron and luthien went through the date and down the Labyrinthian stairs and together the labyrinthian Rot the greatest deed that has ever been dared by elves or men. That is a big statement They walked into the halls of morgoth. Yeah, that is a big statement and I mean that's not that it's not wrong Um, so they go into this hall And this is wild so baron is sneaky. He's still in his wolf form But luthien was stripped of her disguise by the will of morgoth and he bent his days upon her horrible She was not daunted by his eyes And she named her own name and offered her surface to seem before him after the manner of a minstrel This is such an interesting thing for her to say. I just like You know, why would morgoth think she was there?

I know, right? Is it that common for elves to come and offer service? No, obviously not. So, yeah I don't know. It's it's obviously a great distraction morgoth looking upon her beauty conceived in his thought an evil lust, of course How could he not? Everyone does Oh my gosh, um Yeah So, you know, this is why he was it says he was bedialed by his own malice in that for he watched her leaving her free for a while So he doesn't instantly imprison her. He's entertained by this idea that soon he will Yeah, um I almost wonder though.

Okay. So this is my thing I think he knows that she's there for some mischief, right? Because he put the dog out But she is so distracting, but I think he's like, oh, she can try but like, what is she gonna do?

Right? Like he's just like, oh, she's pretty. Yeah, she's got both angles of it like too pretty to be believed Too pretty to be feared. Um, yeah Very distracting obviously whatever song she's singing currently. Yeah, um, I don't know like It's a strong ploy. It's just like so It's so blatant Yeah, the fact that she could walk in and say hey, I want to sing for you and not and he's not gonna ask her any questions Like why are you here?

It doesn't matter. She's not gonna leave in his mind. You know, he she's now He knows she's probably not here for a good reason, but he thinks what can she do? I don't know Yeah, but here's what she can do. So while he's taking She's While he's planning on capturing her it says then suddenly she alluded his sight and out of the shadows Began a song of such surpassing loveliness and of such blinding power Um That he listened perforce and a blindness came upon him so he can't see her and all of his court was cast down in slumber Even the fires faded and were quenched So that's incredible um Then luthien basically jumps up cast her sleep cloak before his eyes And set upon him a dream So she is doing everything like A single-handedly the crown on his head that has a silver ales falls off Um and now baron Baron even fell asleep. So she has to wake him up so that he can fulfill his quest Incredible I know okay.

This is the thing. I feel like when her dad was like this is like the quest of luthien and maybe some other people And i'm like Okay, when your dad was like, okay baron go get me a simeral I don't think he was like and she offered my daughter's exam and like How do you get the simeral amazing what she can do But it is unfair how powerful she is she is so effing very cool. It's wild I think way back when when we first heard about malion and tingle and I was making fun of I don't know whichever one of them probably tingle for having fallen into for being ensorcelled um Yeah, I take some of that back now. She's awesome I will say also like Part of me is looking at malion because i'm like girl You could probably do so much like what have you just been doing chilling in this random elf town?

It's true. This is a very interesting comparison of like malion who is very defensive. She has like the turtle of malion She's keeping every enemy out of dorias. She's providing an amazing service.

Let's be real Because it sounds like they're right next to where those freaking spiders of undolient live So maybe that takes up 99 of her power keeping those butters out But this is really interesting demonstration of what happens when you take at least some part of that power Um, and you take it on the offensive So malion comes off as a very defensive player and luthien is just like I will walk into your fortress Um, I'm here for my man Yeah, the power of love indeed So she wakes up baron so that he can complete the quest. Okay. It's your turn.

Yes. Finally do the theme I set everything up. You're ready and then it says So he gets out his knife and he's trying to cut out one of the silmarils um And he grabs one he gets one and then it says it came into baron's mind that he would go beyond his vow That is greed sir and bear out of aim bad all three of the jewels of feanor Um, but his knife snapped and a shard of the blade. So I wonder if he was going for the second one And the shard Yeah, and the shard hits the cheat of mordoth and he groaned and stirred and all the hosts of aim bad Moved and sleep she put the entirety of aim bad to sleep How many like ball rod is that how many I don't know I mean how many ball rods how many orcs it's everyone and fortunately baron was like Uh, he realized what he was doing that they needed to get the heck out now And it says terror fell upon baron and luthien and they fled heedless and without disguise Yeah, let's get out of here only to see the light once more like for real um so So here's what's going on They're almost out And they're almost at the date but carc Roth woke up Yeah, now they have to fight past him And it says luthien was spent and she had not the time nor strength to quell the wolf So what are you going to do when you're did out of gel free card when you're is already used player is tired So baron walks up and okay kudos to baron for bravery right he walks up to car garoth and he says Get you gone and fly He says okay, but this is the thing i'm i'm picturing this baron like with a cocky swagger And saying for here is a fire that shall consume you and all evil things And he thrusts the simile like he holds it up.

Yeah in front of the wolf And i just i'm just laughing because baron's like hold on babe. You can't handle it. Don't worry Don't worry luthien. I got this I got this And he's probably luthien said something like luthien probably said something like baron.

I'm a little tired Yeah, and he's like don't worry babe. I got this But then this is the thing he's like so confident this is gonna work right just throw this in front of the wolf But then car garoth looked at that holy jewel and was not donned and Given what he was a devouring spirit within him awoke to a sudden fire And gaping he suddenly took the hand within his jaws He wanted the simile and he bites off baron's hand and swallows this coming Swallows the simmer. I did not see this coming. This was wild to me It just is horrible. I don't know why it just cracks me up like baron's like don't worry, babe I got this like nothing can stop us now And then the wolf goes nope. Yeah chomp munch munch munch I mean he's gonna regret it Um, oh my gosh This is this is a cool phrase it says of all the terrors that tame ever into belarian air and bads fall The madness of car garoth was most dreadful Um, so it drives crazy. Yeah, like this there's this pain that sears him Um, so like yeah, he defeated car garoth 100% No blows Didn't even have to sweep his sword, but dude you lost the one thing that you needed for your dumb quest I just whoo Yeah, yeah, so that gets me It's rough. I mean luthier has to do everything again So now baron's dying because the the because he bit off his Well, he bit off his hand, which isn't great and then there's also venom on the fangs of the wolf So she's she's drawing it out Um more goth and all his baddies are awake And yeah, everything is just bad. They have um, there's a really funny phrase um, it's Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory Quite literally the jaws of car garoth Like wild how badly it went all the sudden with everything else going so well for them Yeah, but actually this is kind of true to the heist genre, right? You know the heist can go either like according to plan or not And if it goes according to plan for too long, it's really boring.

So you got to throw in that little that little term. Yeah Yeah Um, and so all of these like evil creatures are coming to get them and ask who comes to save them The eagles the eagles so cool You know, it is interesting because we've commented before the eagles have come one other time to engbad to kind of rescue an elf um, and supposedly on the errand Of um, manway, right? Yeah, but i'm just like i'm constantly like how does manway decide? Yeah, he saves right?

I guess this is what gods do. They were they were really lucky They were very lucky they were very lucky they were on the list So the eagles flew flew them away They were on basically desk door and luthien is weeping because she thinks that baron's going to die, right? And the eagles lay her and baron by By each other and hoon i didn't realize initially but hoon didn't come on this quest. It was just baron and luthien Yeah, and so hoon whoin finds them Right and luthien wakes up and she starts tending to baron and who and whoin's helping her um, and it is so interesting because baron baron wakes up And he sees the sky and he hears her singing and he sees luthien and it's like it was spring again Right like so he's in this dark dark almost death. Yeah, and and they finally get back to Spring which is like their season of reprieve and love and joy and beauty again.

Um, Yeah, there's just they're going through it. Um, this is so rude did this thereafter baron was named or camion which is one-handed Unbelievable Hey one-handed like It is a little on the nose It's amazing Um, but it does say that he recovers he is drawn back to life by the love of luthien And he arose and together they walked in the woods once more. So yeah, you know, they're having a happily for now They're recovering. Yeah Yeah, so he's still a little I think haunted by his oath, but he's not doing anything about it yet Uh, but they're they're headed back to dorias.

So now they're back to dorias And and there had been rumors that they had died. Yeah, right? And I like this because this is going to teach thing a little something about Um, I don't know. He's going to have grieved and that's going to make him. I think soft-hearted or at least closer to it um Also, I love this and it is told that in that time day run the minstrel of fiendle straight from the land It was seen no more wonderful.

Good. Get gone Uh So and the reason he goes is because of this rumor that luthien has died It says seeking for luthien in despair. He wandered over strange paths Um, and where for many ages he made lament beside dark waters for luthien daughter of themedle most beautiful of all living things I guess I shouldn't make too much fun of him He's not as bad as like kurafin like the evil brothers He didn't think of what she wanted. He just admired her in his heart. I don't know. I don't know He seems like a typical bard Little little emotional.

Yeah Um, this is interesting as well Malian so it says in that time There's like it said it basically says dark days in doriv and it says in that time fiendle turned to malian But now she withheld her counsel from him saying that the doom that he had devised must work to its appointed end And he must have wait now upon time. That is so She is cold. I love her. This is this is the equivalent to her being like I'm not getting you out of this mess. Yeah, this is what I told you. So this was your decision Yeah, pretty much Oh my goodness.

Okay. So yeah, it's a dark hour because they think oh my gosh Luthien is dead. They don't they don't really care that much about baron, but but they think luthien is dead Yeah, they don't know about it. They do hear about this like the madness of karkaroth and they hear of like the destruction that's happening there Um, and so finally though we did this is an interesting turn Um baron and luthien have come back in They've returned their journey and I like the way this is phrased before is luthien who led baron to her father And now it says then baron led luthien before the throne of fiendle Um, and he looked in wonder upon baron whom he had thought dead Um, and I like this. This is very fiendle, but he loved him not Because of the lows he had brought upon dorath. Yeah, so he's like I don't I still don't like you Yeah, of course not but of course he brought luthien back so that's one good theme And then it says baron kneels and he says I return according to my word. I am come now to claim my own Themedle answers. What of your quest and of your vow baron says it is fulfilled even now a silmaril is in my hand And this cracked me up. I love it.

How long do you think they were working on that? Do you think like baron was was dead and dying and then came back to life and said luthien we could never go back to your dad Because because I didn't win and she's like or maybe We did I think I think she convinced him No, you I think she would have had to convince him Actually, you did fulfill your quest because he wouldn't have gone back otherwise I think it would be very hard for him to admit. He didn't yeah. So the fact that he says this is just Very funny to me impeccable Um, yeah And then think all says show it to me, right? Yep, and baron puts forth his handless arm And says He didn't even need to say anything one hand was empty. The other hand was gone And it says baron named himself cam lost the empty handed which is I guess slightly better than the alternative But what's wrong with your one hand?

What's going on here? Just get multiple nicknames. Yeah, and this works Thingles mood was softened and baron sat before he's thrown upon the left and luthien upon the right Um, and they told everyone about their quest and thing will finally realizes how cool baron is Um, and they did it married. It's all very happy I think for me, I would just be like, okay, you tried hard enough.

I thought my daughter was going to be dead Now she's not let's just call this over Not thing go Oh my goodness. So now we're having karkaroth cause real problems Exactly. So we we thought like, oh man, he was going to come home triumphant With the simrel and that's how he's going to get luthien. But turns out he just lost his hand And now the simrel's in the belly of a beast literally So so they go on a hunting party Um Cause karkaroth, it's not just the jewel karkaroth is causing a lot of pain and destruction.

Yes. Yes, it's well he Yeah, he's a huge animal and he's just causing havoc So they try to hunt him until baron Tries to get him with a spear and it looks like karkaroth wounds him Then it says that huan went in And I think this is the point where they fight to the death. I think huan is the one who kills karkaroth Yes, he is. Yes, which and thiemel doesn't even try to help Um, because he sees that baron is wounded and so he stays with baron So huan in that hour slew karkaroth Um, what else is happening here? But then as It was predicted karkaroth gives huan a fatal injury and he goes back to baron's side and he speaks for his last time His third time just to tell him farewell Really nice really nice. I I was really into huan.

I thought he was really cool He's a cool character. Yeah, so now we've got um various people They cut open karkaroth. They pull out the simarill This is ridiculous. It says the hand of baron that held the jewel was yet in corrupt.

That's awesome. Obviously just like The simarill itself keeping it whole Um And then they remove the simarill right and the hand falls apart. It just dissipates. Yep And then they put the simarill in baron's hand Um, and he gave it to thiemel and it says now is the quest achieved am I doomed full rot? And that's how you know luthien persuaded him to go back to doroth with that that little Slippery. Yes, we do have it in our hand in my hand.

The hand that's in the belly of the wolf Like, you know, that was a luthien Good for her. She's like you gotta be done with this baby. I can't go back. You can't dwell on this Let's just go home.

You totally did it. But we see here in this moment baron did not feel like he had really achieved his twice ridiculous Um, so now says they bore back baron camloss son of bear here upon a bear branches with who on at his side So is he dead? Is this what's happening? So now they give him back to no, I don't think he's just wounded Luthien very wounded. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. This is all very sad um Vitting him await her beyond the western sea and he looked upon her eyes ere the spirit left him So basically this is wild because that's an elf theme. They don't even know where the spirits of men go Right. No, so she's saying wait for me and she doesn't she has no promise that that's even possible like yeah She has no idea Um, which this has got to be brutal.

She's at home. They're like, we're gonna go on a hunting party. She's like cool He comes back. He's on the verge of dying and she's like, I should have gone with you I'm just picturing this luthien luthien the girl who can Literally do anything and every time baron leaves her site. He comes back dead. Like how can you love this mortal frail theme?

He's almost died somebody taught. I know horrible. So but this is interesting to me. Um It says that for the spirit of baron at her bidding terry This is the power of luthien to command even his spirit So it says he waits in the hall of mandos unwilling to leave the world um Because technically men aren't supposed to linger there. They're supposed to kind of just head out into the Yes. Um, so what is happening here? Okay, this is what my like favorite part It looks like a lot of time has passed here.

Is that right? I can't tell how much time has passed Not at the initial beginning but towards the end there is So yeah, I love this part because I feel like this really gives a little bit of context to like arwin and aragorn And I think the movie is a little bit confusing. Yeah, but what's fascinating is so basically we've talked about Death and dying in this world and we know that the elves are the first children of the Louis Vuittar They are kind of tied to the world.

So they're spirit lingers in the halls of mandos and they just chill, right? It's like this very for men. It's a very different experience. Yes But for men, it's a very different experience where they die and then maybe they pass through the halls of mandos And they go somewhere else we don't know where they go they go into the abyss and people don't know what happens to them They don't know if they go back to aluvatar. They don't know Basically, they're not tied to the world.

They can leave their spirits can leave and so the concept of Of this is luthien came to the halls of mandos, right? She was like wait for me. He's dying She's like try to wait for me and then she's seen a song for mandos She does it's very It's very um, oh, what's the greek myth with Orpheus, it's very orpheus. Yeah, and so she goes to mandos because she's an elf She can go and she's half Maya so she can go to mandos and she says basically You have the spirit of my love, right? Like kind of the similar thing like release him Well get this get this description though of the song This is how she made her argument the persuasion the persuasion was in the song But this is really interesting. It says the song most sorrowful than ever the world shall hear Unchanged imperishable it is sun still in valinor Beyond the hearing of the world and listening to it the valor are grieved that was really impressive to me That there's she like we've got like the lay of luthien which tolton won't let us hear or read And then we've got literally the lay that luthien saying two mandos and that is still sun and valinor And it's so sad like even niana's weeping, right?

And it's so I love how that you're right this language is beautiful Like listen to this for luthien wove two themes of words of the sorrow of the eldar the elves And of the grief of men of the two kindreds that were made by aluvatar to dwell in arda And so she's basically saying these are all the children of aluvatar and i'm going to sing about our grief collectively Not of elves not of men both but all of us. Yeah Um, and so mandos is moved. He's moved to pity like he's never been moved, right? Like she's crying and then it says this nor has been since this has only happened once has been since this has only happened once But then typical to like the myth with hades where even though he was moved he had a very specific Uh offer for them.

Yep. Mandos has a similar offer So he basically he summons baron's spirit, right? And because he hasn't quite gone into the abyss. He hasn't quite left And basically he says I don't have the power to hold men's spirits here, right? Like I know you want to be with baron I you could you could stay here in the west with baron's spirit ideally, but I don't have the power to keep it And so he's like therefore you're only going to have two options and There are these two, right? that baron can be released Right into the abyss let his spirit go and you go back to valinor And it will be a beautiful life for you.

You'll be at peace. You'll be with the gods You'll live in this beautiful light, but baron cannot go there, but baron cannot his spirit can't stay Or my second option Is I can reinstate baron to a mortal life and I'm like, oh mandos you can do that But basically he says I can put Well, she basically returned both of them to middle-earth mortal Exactly. I can return you both to middle-earth mortal, but he said if you go back You have to be immortal too.

Yeah, right like this has to be and there's no guarantee that he's not going to get sick There's no guarantee that he's not going to die again Right, like you're both going to go back in a faulted this faulty state And so he says which one do you want to take? And that's where she chooses the second she picks the second. Yeah so This is kind of where it ends, right? We know that she picks the second and we know that their paths are together and their story is really epic Um, she forsakes the blessed realm. She does all this stuff, but then That's all that we know It doesn't go on to talk about their lives together It doesn't go on to say when they died if they had we know they had children, right because we have descendants from them But uh is such an epic chapter So it is interesting like at the end it says it is a loan of the el dar that she died and left the world already uh, so It sounds like Of her children like the elves see the likeness of luthien and I like this phrase. Um The likeness of luthien the beloved whom they have lost because she she was mortal. She came back mortal and lived a mortal life Um, it's it's very sad Um, it was not what I was expecting.

I don't know what I expected. Um, it was Really exciting and so much action so much action and I had no sense for what the character of luthien would be Um, she surprised me a lot even baron surprised me. He was really cool.

I made fun of him, but he was really cool. Um Edited and themed will just being his cranky self like all of these characters like the fact that we've got single a million Really built up for this chapter. I think helped. I think we said that for other chapters Like good thing we met that random side character so that they could show up in this more important characters chapter Um, but it was cool to to no fangle so well when this happened. It was like, of course, he's just gonna lock her in a tower What else would he do? So it made it feel yeah, it made it feel like a really strong character choice as opposed to Um, just told in saying and now I must work for punsle into this Um, yeah, so yeah, it was really good Really good. It was really good really epic I think it adds more context to me for lord of the rings and aragorn singing this song Because he sang it in kind of a sad way and I thought it was because it was like Oh, I mean our one might not get together But I think it was a little bit deeper than that. It's like this woman sacrificed a lot to be with this man And so I think he's saying like even if we were together Yeah, even if we were together at what cost, right? It also reveals quite a bit about aragorn's character. This is wild to me now that I think of it when froto says I don't understand what you're singing. What's it about?

and he says it's a lave luthien and Frodo, I think he asked something like what happened to her or what did she do And aragorn's only response is she died and I'm like die. You know so much. She did this theme She did that she saved this theme. She did that just like of all the things that she did Dine was the last and least important But that was the thing that we don't his mind. Yes, exactly. So that was the future he saw for arwin Yeah, that was the future he saw for arwin. So yeah, I like knowing that story now. I think that is I think that's really fun Knowing more about that. It's it's very very good.

I loved it. I'm so glad we were able to read it together and get this very satisfying Yeah Knowledge, I think this is my favorite chapter of the somerillian so far. There have been other good chapters, but like this one has been a hard hit So I think we'll have what we only have like five six chapters left depending on how we call these chapters I was streaming ahead and chapter 22 is lawn as well No, is it chapter 21? Yeah, chapter 21.

Yeah, so I was streaming ahead and chapter 21 is lawn it says of Turin and Turin bar No, I did who that is but the chapter is as long as luthien and baron. So it better be good, which is crazy Yeah, so but less less renowned. So we'll see. Yeah, let's run out. We'll see how it goes Um, yeah, it's a total winner for me. I love that one It's a winner. Thanks so much for joining us everybody Ciao till next time. Bye You You You