Hi there, I'm Stephanie.

And I'm Lydia. Come along with us as we explore and learn about the world of Tolkien through deep dives on lore, characters, beat-a-lons and laugh-a-lons. We are excited to have you as a new friend on this journey with us. Welcome to Speak Friend and Enter, a Lord of the Rings podcast. Hello, hello. Welcome, welcome. All right, so we're back. We're in chapter 23. And another domino has fallen. Yes.

This is of Tuor and the fall of Dondor. Highly anticipated. We've seen this get kind of hinted at. Yeah, we've seen this coming. It's been foreshadowed many, many chapters ago.

And yeah, it's just it's just a bad time. Morgoth just stays wedding always. I don't know what's going on here. So we have Huwer with the H, who is the brother of Hurin, who we have just witnessed at Dmyza.

Oh, my goodness. And Huwer was slain at the battle and his wife had a child after him, Tuor. And then it just goes on and I feel like we have not met Tuor previously. Right? This is the first time we've seen him. No, not Tuor.

Okay. So they dole a little bit into his backstory. He is raised by some elves where he's been fostered by elves is how they say it, which is interesting. And then, you know, when he's 16 years old, he's briefly taken captive by some Easterlings. He's held there for like three years as a thrall and then he it's States and is an outlaw for four years. So he's going through a classic. This really kind of feels like a coming of age right at this point where you haven't really lived until you've been an outlaw. So like, you know, study really hard in high school, go to a good college. It's the same thing.

Study really hard, become a cool outlaw. I think it's interesting because let's see who had similar story. It was Turin had a similar story. Turin, Baron had a similar story and then he didn't become an outlaw, but he also had that kind of like fostered by elves situation and it's drastically different how these people's lives turn out.

And so it is fascinating seeing like some of the personality that is important. And wait, how was made one fostered by Elstras? Made one isn't well. He was.

Am I missing out both someone? Oh man. No, he was part, part elf and part, I guess dark elf. So there was like a little bit of that. That's right.

There was a little bit of a, and then they went to his mom's family. That's right. That's right.

And the uncle took him. He, he did kind of have that fostering experience of, oh, you're being raised in a different culture essentially. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's about story. He's currently an outlaw and then this happens.

I did not see this coming. Um, it says tour is living in solitude as an outlaw. Um, and then Ulmo said it in his heart to depart from the land of his fathers, for he had chosen to her as the instrument of his designs. And I'm like, oh, what design? What design is Ulmo up to?

Yeah, I was very intrigued by that. Um, because we've been in and out with Ulmo. Um, he's just been kind of on the peripheral of the, he's been giving people advice, cryptic prophecies. Yeah.

Yes. But we haven't seen him entangled in a lot of this going on, uh, in a lot of the going ons. And in fact, I feel like the Valar in general have like been stepped back for a long time. We haven't even like heard about the Valar for so long. So it's cool to be like, okay, we're back in Valar land again. Um, so basically he tells to her, get the gone and tour does and he goes and he journeys and he does a bunch of stuff. And at some point this was interesting. Um, so he's out doing things and then Ulmo comes and speaks to him directly and Ulmo, bait him to part from, you know, the place he is and seat out the hidden kingdom of Dondolin and he gave tour a great cloak to mantle him in shadow from the eyes of his enemies.

And again, I was like, okay, so Ulmo has this big plan. Why? Why does he care about Dondolin? And, and I feel like I'm forgetting stuff. Oh. Was Ulmo part of Dondolin being founded?

I couldn't remember. So remember, I think it's Turgon was looking for a safe place and Ulmo say come here like the underwater river, right? Follow the water, right? Like follow the water.

There are these hidden places where the streams go, right? Okay. So it's kind of like Ulmo is a patron of, of Dondolin the same way Athena is a patron. Kinda. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. But actually I wonder if he's thinking of that story because you know the story of Athens where it was Athens, Athena and Neptune or Poseidon rather who were contested. And they decided to go with Athena, I think. And they went with Athena for the olive tree, but Neptune Poseidon had tried to provide them a stream, which I think was salty now that I think of it.

And they're like, that's not terribly useful. Try again. I don't think it was freshwater.

Yeah. I think he'd understand that mortals needed drink needed to drink like fresh water. But Poseidon and Athena had this competition for the patronage of the city. And now it feels like Tolton is dipping back again into the Greek myth and saying, what if Poseidon had won? What would a city that was patronized by Poseidon look like? Cause Ulmo feels like a very direct connection to me to Poseidon.

Yeah. Well, and I think it's also interesting because remember he also, so he helped them found this place, but he gave a cryptic warning to Turgan and he basically said, yeah, don't when he found it exactly like, don't put too many of your heart and hopes in this city, right? Cause you know, you know, the curse is going to follow you here too. Right. Like I'm happy to help you.

I want you to have a safe place, but like be aware though. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's what's going on. Um, then we have two who eventually comes upon an elf and this elf was like, uh, he's shipwrecked. So he finds them in this place called Vinyamar and I feel like I should know where Vinyamar is from the geography chapter, but I do not.

And I refuse to believe that it matters. So they, they stumble upon each other somewhere and this elf is one of those that was shipwrecked and I'm assuming, uh, it says that this is, he was shipwrecked from one of the ships at Turgan sent west and Turgan has been one of the only elves who has been trying to reach the Valar. Yeah. Um, so probably because of the prophecy that. Right.

Well, good. He seems just a little bit more aware of what's happening, what's coming potentially. Um, and thanks to Turgan, I mean, he's trying to leap the Valar back into the story.

I'm like, yeah, go Turgan, but he's failing. Um, so he meets this elf. This elf is named Veroneway. Um, and two were tells him, look, I've been visited by Ulmo. He says, I must go to Dondolin, et cetera.

And he's believed and Veroneway says, I'll take you there. Which is crazy. Yeah. It's kind of a fantastic set of circumstances. Obviously not a coincidence. Obviously, Ulmo was like, yes, pitch that one. This place.

Stay him, drop him off here. I'll be bringing two war. Like I can just see Ulmo playing with his little Barbie and going now kiss. No, it's all right. Yes. Yeah.

Like he's lining everything up. Um, which is so interesting because I, I don't perceive Ulmo to be like, I don't know, highly interventionist. We, when we were talking about personalities at the very beginning, um, we talked about him as kind of like a hermit. Right. He gives off like kind hermit vibes.

No, we're near anyone else. Um, so yeah, it's weird to me that Ulmo was like, I am going to go to these great lengths to make sure something happens here. And he has plans. He found it.

He helped found the city. So it makes sense, but it's, it's interesting. So anyways, these guys, um, they journey and I thought this other scene was really interesting. It says that they go, uh, they basically passed by where Glauron was killed. Um, or maybe not where he was killed.

Sorry. They're at the pools of Ivern. So it looks like Blauron was there at one point and he defiled it. Um, and then it says that they saw one going northward in haste. He was a tall man, clad in black and burying a black sword. Is this Turin?

It has to be Turin. I'm wondering if like these time periods are overlapping like that. You know, I think it has to be.

I think it is. Um, because I, I mean, they called him the black something. I don't know. I thought it was like the black master or something, but I think he had a black sword. It's that evil sword and it's a tall man. So here is Turin and I thought it was interesting.

They knew not who he was nor anything of what had fallen in the south and he passed them by and they said no word. So I can almost imagine that like past the light hiking past each other on the hiking trail and they're just like, that man clearly has a purpose and we're clearly busy. So like no point stopping by. Um, it's just cool. It's a cool moment. Like I said, like there are so many instances of like, like ships in the night.

Yeah. You almost become very tangential, but you don't quite meet. Um, so they finally get to Gondolin. Um, they're briefly taken prisoner of course, as one does.

Um, and then, and then they're brought to, um, Turin and it goes really well. Um, because tour speaks to them basically with the voice of Ulobo and it's not clear what that means. It sounds like obviously it's his words, but I wonder if like his voice was actually changed. Um, and he did warning to Turin that the Turks of Mandos was hastened to its fulfillment that all the words of the Nolders should perish and he bade him depart, abandoned the fair and mighty city and go down Syrian to the sea. Which is that was really interesting to me.

He's saying evacuate did out now. Um, what did you think about that? I mean, those are the exact things that Turin doesn't want to hear.

Right. He's spent years building this city up and even though almost said don't get too attached, he's, he's attached. He has become attached. But yeah, it's like bringing home a puppy.

Don't get too attached. We just fostering him for like impossible challenge level impossible. But I do think it's interesting because he knows he knows about like almost knows about her in or almost knows that more got the seeking the city.

And so all of this time he's saying like, we got to leave. Well, it's just really interesting because I have thought, I don't know. I guess I've liked Turin.

We haven't had much of him, but I've liked him and I've always saw him and he's pretty wise. You know, when everyone else was, yeah, when everyone else was setting up shop out in the open, he said to himself, no, we need a hidden city. There's danger out here. Let's, he plays it very safe. Um, and so it is interesting to see kind of a flaw in him where it should be the taste that the safest thing to do is to obey the God who is giving you very clear and explicit instructions. It's not even like written in a prophecy where it's impossible to interpret.

It's like, leave now, go to the sea. Very clear. Um, and it seems like the safest thing to do would be to obey. So it kind of surprised me that he didn't, that he instead took to counseling because, you know, a God just told you what to do. Yeah.

What other counsel do you need to do? And it, it does make you think like in your personal life, you know, if you're religious, right? God tells you what you do all the time, right? There's plenty of commandments. There's plenty of scripture.

There's all this stuff. And like, of course we don't obey. We're like, so I shouldn't chastise him for something I'm incapable of doing myself.

Um, but it is really interesting and obviously doesn't go well, right? So Turgan is taking counsel, but who is he counseling with? Frickin' Madeleine. Hate him. Um, and Madeleine doesn't like to or why because he's Jelly-Jell.

Yeah. Um, cause his girl likes, it's not even his girl. It's his cousin, right? His cousin.

His cousin likes him. What's her name again? Where is she? Idril. Idril? Yeah.

Pretty name. Um, so it says Madeleine spoke ever against tour in the Councils of Pien. Um, yeah, basically urging Turgan to reject the words of Olmo, which he does. You know what? Um, I think it's so interesting. It's like, Olmo has this idea. He could obviously just come to Turgan and tell him, right? He's spoken to Turgan before, but he says, no, I need, I need a, almost like a profit.

I need like a messenger. Yeah. And I'm like, why this random dude? Is it because you think he'll listen?

Right? Like maybe he's sensing that Turgan's too caught up in his own desires for this. See, I think, I think, I think it could go the other way where like it's not important that Turgan leave.

It's not important that the whole city estate, it's important that someone in the city estate. And there is a sense that gods do work through men. They work through profits. They work through messengers. And obviously in my mind, that helps the story, right? Because it's like, then you don't have this day's ex machina moment every five seconds. We're like, yup. And then I saw an angel.

I saw God and then I, I couldn't deny the truth and I obviously had to do it. Right. So we did it instead of having almost up and directly, we did to see Turgan have these layering and have this loss. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we did to see that. Whereas you wouldn't get to see that if almost went there directly. Yeah. Um, so there are like, I feel like there are narrative reasons to do that, but then there's also, I think even more practical reasons where it's like, perhaps for Ulmo, it's good enough. What happens in the end here? You know, the, I mean, I'll spoil it. We're, we're getting there.

Um, the whole city isn't saved. There are a few estates and maybe that's good enough for him. Or he's like, enough of another voice that if Turgan doesn't listen to me, there's someone else to be out there saying, maybe there's somebody else who would, right? And, and it's just like, it kind of gives me the impression like they're looking these gods, these valor, they're looking so far into the future that they can see the long path. They can see what connects the dots.

And so you, to him, it's like, maybe it's good enough that just a few people stayed because he's seen what's going to come out of there. Maybe it's Numenor. And I don't know almost relationship with Numenor. Yeah. So I don't know if that's his end game. Um, but that, that's my take on that. Cause yeah, otherwise if he showed up, he would just do everything himself.

Yeah. He just be like, okay, so I'm gonna go. But, but like in that case, why aren't the valor like fighting Mordor right now? Like they're clearly taking a step back. Right?

Yeah. So at this point, um, spies because of like, as we discussed, buffers, sleep, her in had kind of led Mordor to like the general area. And now we've got a bunch of like Mordor spies. And so they're able to get around. Um, Turgan decides not to leave, but he does decide, you know, I've got to worry about treason.

I was warned about that back in the day. So he blocks the doors. Um, but there must be other passages because it says that some people, people are headed out into the hills. Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Oh, and here's another line that's, yeah. Uh, wait, where, where did I strip it? Oh, that's just an image. Um, and then of course there's another line here where it's like, um, this is the line where it says, and then the heart of it was turned to Turgan and his to her and made them see to hatred, forever greater, but he desired above all things to possess her. So man, this guy has been years.

Come on. And it's so interesting the way he phrases it because he doesn't say he doesn't love her or he, Tolkien doesn't say he loves her. He says he wanted to possess her. Right.

Where he's like, no, no one should be with her, but me. Right. Like. Yeah. It's, it's, it's an.

interesting. So for time, there is happiness, right? We did a wedding.

We did spring. It's great. They have a baby. They have a son. So this is Aaron deal.

Things are going great. However, this like this light looming, there's this looming onslaught, right? And so it says it drill was wise and far scene. And her heart misdaved her and foreboding crept upon her spirit as a cloud. Therefore, in that time, she let prepare a secret way.

So she contrived a secret passage out of gondolin, one that nobody knew about, especially made one. Well, because that was her dad's not been super receptive. She's kind of like, you know, I'm gonna have something just in case, right? Yeah. And it obviously it's wise.

So I wasn't clear to me. It seems like there are multiple ways out and around gondolin. So it sounds like maybe turd and blot off the main entrance, but there are different ways to get out. Because it says that madeleine was out in the hills. And he's captured by orcs.

And he's brought to aim band. And it says specifically that he was threatened with torment. And it's not like the fear of the torment that made him cave. It was what he was promised.

Yes. So he was never tortured. But he was promised gondolin and he was promised idril.

Which and so of course, he rats out everything he did. Yeah, I feel like he's just a foil for her in because you have someone who said no and kind of gave it all up. And then you have someone who is like, okay, for the right things, right? For like place and family, or this woman, I'd be willing to do it.

He doesn't seem to have any regrets whatsoever. But yeah. Yeah. So then so he is taken to Mordoth. And then he's sent back because Mordoth isn't ready, I guess, doesn't have the army in place. And so he needs a little bit more time to prep.

Yeah. So it sounds like roughly several years past, it says he was taken when Arendelle was young. And then when Arendelle is seven years old, Mordoth is ready. And he comes with everyone.

Yeah, his barrage, the orcs, the wolves, the dragons. Yeah, sounds awful. And they come on a festival day.

So everyone is distracted. And then they have a massive battle. And this battle, it says, is told in the fall of Gondolin. Is that a separate book? It's a whole nother thing, because I don't think it's in the appendix or anything. Yeah, I think it's a completely different piece of literature. I can't imagine it's too long.

I wonder if it's like been made or if it's just referenced here, right? Because we don't have like the lay of Luthien. So yeah. So get this to war, it says sought to rescue Ideril from the sack of the city. But Madeleine had laid hands on her and on Arendelle. And what's he going to do with Arendelle? Yeah.

Like, what was the plan? He knows that that's how he gets the mom, though. It's like, I have your son. Exactly.

Maybe he's going to take exactly that was my first I was okay. That's clearly what's happening. Anyways, it says to her fought with Madeleine on the walls and cast him far out and body as it fell, smote the rocky slopes. And then it pitched into the flames below. I was like, yes, never a better death. I felt really, like really great about that. So yeah, we're getting like these snippets of like this incredible action that's happening here. This is like the peak of the peak of two or story. It's actually really I could see this working very well in film, like to war, having this like meeting with Olmo and then going and having a wonderful life and then this like disaster at the end. Like, I could see this working in film.

It would be really nice. Also, can we say like, when we're talking about like this battle was epic. It was epic because we have here Goth Mogg, the Lord of the bad of the bow rocks is there. And yes, Turgan goes out to meet him. And the battle is so intense. They are both slain. Yeah, and it is very intense.

It sounds awesome. So I think Turgan is one of the few people in history to have actually killed a bow rock. Yeah.

And there's another one later in this chapter. Is that true? I don't know.

I think I had a note somewhere in here. But we've had multiple instances of somebody goes to fight a ball rod and both they and the ball rod die. And I'm like, Dane, I underestimated Dandalf. It's a miracle he survived. That's why he was like run like get out here. And I guess he didn't. He died and it was true. He didn't quite have a different a different experience.

It was the same ending. So two or an Israel do escape and they escape because Israel had that secret passageway. And they did out of there barely. And it says they climb into these like horrible, miserable, cold mountains. They have many wounded, many women, many children with them.

It's a really bad time. Orts come after them. A ball rock comes after them and Glorfindale fights it and they both die again.

Insanity. So the only reason they make it out at all is because the eagles come and fight the orcs off for them. So it's really winners of every there are a lot more present in these books than they are in Lord of the Rings. And I know there's technically some reason for that. Like they're off fighting some other battles somewhere, but like, dang, they're so useful.

They're so useful. Yeah. So yeah, they go over this, this mountain and they finally made it out and they go to Syria and like exactly what almost said, go to Syria and buy the sea or go through a lawn, Syrian go to the sea. And they finally make it out.

And I thought this was cool. So they're by the sea. And it says to her made a song for Aaron Dill his son concerning the coming of Umo the Lord of waters and the sea launing woken his heart and in his sons also. So we're kind of getting that they're now a sea people, which it's fun. Because that's a real thing. There are people who are like, they live by the sea, they live for the sea.

They love the sea. Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. And then it says that Idrel and tour departed and went southwards, dwelt by the mouth of Syrian. Okay, so they're getting even closer to the sea. And this is where they joined up with El Wim, right? So that's where the daughter of Dior had settled.

Yeah. And this is one of my favorite lines. This is we had references earlier.

This is so hilarious to me. But Mordor thought that his triumph was fulfilled. So Mordor doesn't care that this little remnant has escaped. He doesn't know it sounds like and if he didn't know in city, I've killed Turgan, which was the descendant of Mordor. Exactly.

It sounds like even if he did know he wouldn't care. Why? Because this wrecking little of the sons of Feynur and of their oath, which had harmed him never and turned always to his mightiest aid. Wow. Harned him never. How insulting. Oh, it made me laugh. He laughed. Mordor's laughed, regretting not the one Silmaril that he had lost for by it, he deemed the last shred of the people of the Elder should vanish from Middle Earth and trouble it no more.

That's exactly what you're saying before. I think on last episode where like he doesn't care that he lost his Silmaril turns out that all he had to do was let that one go and they would all kill each other, all his enemies would kill each other Insane. Insane. Yep.

And insane. Something that I love kind of to your point is so at the very end of the chapter, it talks about Tor, he's feeling old and his longing for the sea is still there. So he and his wife get on a ship and they go and they sail off and it was sung about that he was actually able to make it all the way to Valinor, but no one knows, right? Like there's no history of him after that. Yeah, it says he sailed into the sunset and the west.

And so yeah, it's not clear what happened. I thought it was really interesting in that last section where it says, Tor alone of mortal men was numbered among the Elder race and was joined with an Elder whom he loved. And I wonder what that means because it says his fate is thundered from the fate of men. Does he not die? Does that mean that he made it? Does he escape the gift of men? And he became Malwish? I don't know.

Yeah, I think that's cool. I also think it's really interesting that Barron was not on that list. Well, Barron died. Barron got himself sliced. All right, technically yes, but then he came back. But like, you know, he's not listed as among the Elder, even though this is the other instance of man and elf, right?

It's Tor and it's yes. And so, okay, so that was interesting. Two things here. One was I loved similar to you how so a rendil I always get his yeah, he's gonna confuse with a rendil, but a rendil. Okay, he is the Mariner. He is the one that successfully sails over to Valinor and talk to the son of two or the son of Tor. He talks to them and says, come to our aid, come help us defeat Morgoth. And because of that, the Valar gets more involved. And so to see because there's a section just before the end here where it says, Umo goes to Valinor and pleads the taste and fails. Exactly.

So it's like getting set up and you see these pieces getting aligned. And I love that this was something that his father instilled in him, a love for the sea and this belief that he could reach aid and that the gods would hear him, right? And it's partially because his own father had that communication with Umo. So yeah, I think that's really neat.

It's really cool. And then second, I didn't realize that a rendil was half man, half elf. And then he marries Elvig, which is the granddaughter of a half man, half elf.

So they are like very mixed lineage. Yeah, I cannot find in here. Oh, I can't find in here where he marries Elwing. That happens. Yeah, it does. I think it's probably in the future in the next chapter.

Okay, I couldn't find it. But yeah, no, it is interesting because like we think of it like the men of Numenor, but really we should be calling them the half elves of Numenor. You know, they have more than their fair share of Elven blood.

Well, with the extra oomph of Melian too, because that's coming out of the Luthian line. Yeah, that's why. So not to be underestimated, I think. I mean, this is why Ergon is best of all men.

He's barely man. And we're going to have to have a whole episode on that topic, exclusively. Yes. Oh my goodness. I just think it's cute. I mean, going back a little bit to this whole coming of age right where like you have to become an outlaw to be a cool hero. Now I'm wondering if Ergon was ever an outlaw to be a cool hero. He was a ranger. He was a ranger.

Yeah, but like rangers are still within my law. But he wanted to look like the baddest. So he's always wearing he's like emo, right? He's always wearing black.

He's always like doesn't wash his clothes. I got to look like an outlaw. Yeah, he's grunge. He's got to look like an outlaw because I look back on the stories of my father. Oh my gosh.

And they were all outlaws. So funny. Yeah. So funny.

Yeah. I liked this. I finally felt like even though we had the sadness of the fall of Gondolin, we have the death of Madeleine, which feels right. We have the escape of Tuor and Idra. We did a love story. We did an escape. We did a I would call it a peaceful end for Tuor. Ergon has an ending that I feel like fits who he was as a person. Ergon has an end that he deserves.

Even though it was violent. Deserving of a team. Yeah. He fights Gothamot, right? Whereas Singled gets assassinated in his in his like treasury. Like not as cool. Not as cool.

Probably got killed by like a hammer or like a fricking, I don't know, plier. Whereas he gets a go out, Turgeon gets a go out fighting a ball on, right? So it does feel like we've caught back up with here are some noble people who are going to do noble things and hopefully have noble ends. Yes. Yeah, it's very satisfactory. That one I had a much better conclusion feeling. I'm really excited for chapter 24 because I think this is that what we keep talking about, which is like, when are the Valar going to get in on this action?

When are we going to get some relief here, right? Right? So the title on 24 is of the voyage of Arendelle and the War of Wrath. And this is the last numbered chapter in the Silmaril. And then we just have two, I assume the chapter's worth two chapters worth of appendices.

Yeah. So I am I personally am shocked that this is the last numbered chapter because I feel like the story has not. I think he's going to talk. He's going to like give us a lot of words on stuff that feels a little more feely and fluffy. And then he's going to be like, and that's a wrap. And that's it.

That's it. I mean, this chapter 24 is sure as heck. It is 20 phone pages. It has a lot of story, I feel like, to cover. Yeah, I'm not feeling wrapped up. So I anticipate feeling pretty mad by the end of 24 and be like, yo, what happens here?

Don't we have to go through the rise of Numenor and the fall of Numenor? Or maybe that's the appendix. That's the appendix. Okay. Okay. Well, we need to read the appendix at this point because I'm not feeling we're committed closure.

I'm not feeling it. But yeah, I enjoyed that chapter that felt more like a return to classic fairy tales. When we had our four chapters of Greek tragedy, oh my gosh, yeah, that was rough. So long at least two. So yeah, I it's been good. I'm excited to get close to the end, but it's been really good.

I can't believe how quick I feel like it's gone by. Yeah. And like my like big question right now is what the heck is going to happen to the Silmarils? Where are they going to be when, you know, as we transition over into the timeline of Lord of the Rings? Because I don't know, and I am very intrigued by this, the fact that right now the status is two with Mordor.

And then one, where's the one in Numenor right now? Who has that? Who has the Simmerall?

It is we need a Silmaril status check right? It's it's with the previous chapter. It was with Baron and then it was with Dior and then it was with the Dwarves. No, the Dwarves have her right now. No, Elvig has it. Oh, Elwing has it.

Yes, wing wing wing. She has it. She has it.

Okay, so I feel bad for Aaron Dill then he's her. Okay. Yeah, it's not going to go great. I see that things will be bad.

I was hoping it was with the Dwarves and then there'd be like, yeah, bad things are going to happen to the Dwarves for like 200 years, but it's cool. All right, I am worried. I think though I've heard promising things about their story. I'm encouraged. Hopefully, hopefully.

Okay. So, Hanna, Elwing is human? No, she's the granddaughter of Baron and Luthien. So who did their son marry? Was she an elf or was she human?

I think so. She was an elf. So she's quartered.

So she's probably half-ish. Oh, third. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Genealogy, man.

Okay. And yeah, and then you're right, like Aaron Dill himself is like half-ish depending on how you count these things. Yeah, which yeah, because Tours are man and Idrill is an elf. So he's half-elf and she's three quarters. So we're making at least one mostly elf by the end of this. Nice. Excellent. I wonder if that's hard for the elves.

They're just like, yeah, what is going on here? Okay, cool. I'm excited for that chapter. That'll be really good. I'm excited too. I'm already resenting that it's only 28.

It's like, what are you doing? I know, but that is all the more reason to tune in for our final chapter. And we will do the appendix, but final official chapter.

Final, final, final. Of some brilliant, yeah, in quotation marks. Exactly. All right, talking to you. Thanks, guys. Bye. Bye.